Can you guess why this school only allowed 5% to take SATs?

amother

Lilac

Sun, Feb 10 2019, 10:34 pm

amother wrote:

There definitely are boys schools that are considered excellent.

The girls schools are not "really very good". Unfortunately, you don't realize they are not really very good because you haven't been exposed to excellent schools.

I paid a fortune to give my kids a mediocre education at best.

Again. It's not a fair comparison against $$$$ secular private schools, or elite public schools. I do think the BY/yeshiva system does a fairly good job overall considering the dual curriculum (and limited time for secular studies altogether for boys), as well as their budget.

amother

Lilac

Sun, Feb 10 2019, 10:35 pm

amother wrote:

I compare the schools to good public school districts, and they fall short.

I don't believe the students in BY score lower on average than the average score in a good public school district.

Mommyg8

Sun, Feb 10 2019, 10:35 pm

amother wrote:

No, the top boys schools are not on par with the top girls schools.

And which schools do you consider excellent - New York City public schools LOL

Fox

Sun, Feb 10 2019, 10:38 pm

I knew I wasn't going to care much for this article when the expression "ultra-Orthodox" made its appearance.

How do you imagine the readers of Huffington Post distinguish "Orthodox" from "ultra-Orthodox"? What, indeed, is the the difference? Here's an idea : "Orthodox" Jews have the same values and priorities as the readers and editors of the the publication. "Ultra-Orthodox" Jews wear funny clothes and believe weird things.

The use of "Ultra-Orthodox" as a descriptive term is disgusting, and we shouldn't put up with it, let alone use it ourselves. Its entire purpose is to create an artificial distinction that permits people to treat certain types of Jews as the unrepentant "other" who fails to fall into line with society's zeitgeist.

You can agree or disagree with the desire of various communities to engage/semi-engage/or be completely disengaged from the surrounding culture, but labeling them in this wink-wink-nudge-nudge manner is despicable and is a barely-veiled form of anti-religious animus that will eventually threaten us all.
__________________________

Now, onto the incredible victimhood of this woman. I have no idea the state of Bais Yaakov high schools in Brooklyn, nor their Chassidish counterparts.

But who cares what the individual schools want? They don't control the College Board, and they have only limited control over transcripts. This notion that you "need" SAT prep programs and "need" to take the SATs at your school and "need" constant encouragement to do so is ridiculous.

When you graduate, you ask for a couple of copies of your transcripts. If the high school balks, you insist that you plan to simply keep them in a safety deposit box along with your birth certificate. You do this whether you attend Bais Yaakov d'Insulation or Free Love High.

Plenty of kids across the country who attend worse schools than those attended by the author manage to get themselves to a testing center and apply to a college. Some of them even have to travel extensive distances to do so and overcome a lot more systemic difficulties.

Oh, and here's a chiddush: not everyone, either in high school or college, is going to be encouraging of your dreams and ambitions. Some of your teachers, professors, and fellow students will actively demean you in various ways. And the more prestigious and competitive the college, the less they are going to help you with career advice and job search skills.

The author lives in a fantasy world where her life would have been easier if only everyone had encouraged her more. Baloney. She would simply have had different problems. Ironically, immediately after reading the HuffPo story, I read this:

Public Education's Dirty Secret

While we can argue about what constitutes adequate education in Jewish schools and how best to improve it, these are the people we should be allowing to oversee our efforts?
__________________________

A final note: nobody in the 49 states outside of NY cares about "Regents," and people who work in education in those 49 states actively make fun of it. It's a complete boondoggle that costs NY taxpayers tens of millions of dollars and serves no purpose whatsoever. If you are sending your kids to high school in NY, do yourself (and them) a favor and just avoid the whole ridiculous business.

amother

Wheat

Sun, Feb 10 2019, 10:41 pm

Fox wrote:

Fox, you are pure awesome. Can you start a thread of megillos of all your opinions so your fans don't need to sit through pages of boring debate to be able to find these gems?

amother

Apricot

Sun, Feb 10 2019, 10:48 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

My school encouraged all of us to take the SATS. We were given a day off on that day. Just saying. I think my education was definitely equal or greater then many public schools. My school being put in the same category as a chassidish boys school is completely ridiculous.

I agree that BYs can't be lumped with chassidishe boys' schools.
Was yours one of the schools on my list?

chestnut

Sun, Feb 10 2019, 10:54 pm

Fox wrote:

A final note: nobody in the 49 states outside of NY cares about "Regents," and people who work in education in those 49 states actively make fun of it. It's a complete boondoggle that costs NY taxpayers tens of millions of dollars and serves no purpose whatsoever. If you are sending your kids to high school in NY, do yourself (and them) a favor and just avoid the whole ridiculous business.

What do you mean by "avoiding the whole ridiculous business" if the child is in NY HS and will go to college in NY?

naturalmom5

Sun, Feb 10 2019, 11:16 pm

amother wrote:

Fox, you are pure awesome. Can you start a thread of megillos of all your opinions so your fans don't need to sit through pages of boring debate to be able to find these gems?

Precisely... I always say,if Fox doesn't write a book, I am going to gather my favorite 50 posts of hers and create a "Likut Sefer" Very Happy

Fox

Sun, Feb 10 2019, 11:20 pm

chestnut wrote:

What do you mean by "avoiding the whole ridiculous business" if the child is in NY HS and will go to college in NY?

Colleges in NY do not require Regents. They will permit you to submit your Regents scores to, I dunno, demonstrate that you're a good do-bee.

But no college -- not even a public community college -- will debase itself by suggesting that it doesn't attract people from outside NY. Since they cannot impose different admissions standards for NYers and non-NYers, they just make the whole Regents business optional.

Whatever time your kids would spend preparing for Regents exams would be far better spent preparing for SATs. A higher SAT score is worth far more than high Regents scores.

chestnut

Sun, Feb 10 2019, 11:31 pm

I'm still a bit confused. There are no more non regent diploma, correct?

amother

Blush

Sun, Feb 10 2019, 11:50 pm

Apricot, we were discussing regents because “smileforamile” posted a completely false statement that a certain school won’t give regents diplomas.
I couldn’t let her motzai Shem ra continue, so I answered. I’m sorry that she derailed the thread about Sats. The truth is, in Ny, regents scores are a way to measure the success of a schools education.

Ravenclaw

Sun, Feb 10 2019, 11:51 pm

Fox, I totally agree with you.
But just to note, when I asked my ultra-chassidish high school for my transcripts so that I could apply to college, their response was, “What are transcripts?” LOL

But anyway, you are right. I am a big girl and managed to take the GED without the school’s help.

Fox

Sun, Feb 10 2019, 11:51 pm

chestnut wrote:

I'm still a bit confused. There are no more non regent diploma, correct?

I'm far from an expert on this, but as I understand it, private schools are not required to participate in the Regents system. In fact -- and this should tell you something -- the more prestigious the private school, the less likely it is to participate in Regents exams.

Of course, if your child goes to a HS that participates and doesn't offer any way to opt out, you're pretty much stuck.

Just don't let anyone make you think that Regents matters. There is not a single college in the world that will care about your Regents scores. If the college is outside NY, they won't know what the heck you're talking about. If the college is in NY, they'll look at an adequate SAT score and GPA and happily admit you.

Fox

Sun, Feb 10 2019, 11:59 pm

Ravenclaw wrote:

Fox, I totally agree with you.
But just to note, when I asked my ultra-chassidish high school for my transcripts so that I could apply to college, their response was, “What are transcripts?” LOL

Easy shmeasy!

You type up a list of all your courses and the grades; calculate your GPA; then have them sign and stamp it. No stamp? Make one up.

If they ask why, you say, "Sometimes a job wants proof you graduated and did well."

Now, it's true that (a) not everyone would know how to do that; and (b) you shouldn't have to.

But I've worked with enough schools in accreditation processes and with regard to electronic records that you'd be shocked at some of the bad practices that exist in schools with robust secular studies that proudly send everyone to college. Unfortunately, ignorance and craziness aren't isolated to any one segment of Jews.

DrMom

Mon, Feb 11 2019, 12:11 am

I'm confused about the entire concept of a school "letting" students take SAT tests.

Can't you register for the SAT test on your own? Why do you need the school's permission?

Fox

Mon, Feb 11 2019, 12:15 am

amother wrote:

The truth is, in Ny, regents scores are a way to measure the success of a schools education.

When the Regents system was started after the Civil War, this was correct. However, putting blinders on horses to keep them from bolting in traffic was also a thing about the same time.

However, NY no longer requires blinders on your horse. Why? Because (a) you don't have a horse; and (b) cars don't get frightened and bolt. Granted, if NY could impose a "blinder tax," they probably would.

Today, it's pretty easy to compare the academic achievement and curricular rigor of a school: the College Board offers SATs and AP exams. The ACT is still around, too, though less commonly used. Moreover, the data is more robust since it allows comparisons with students throughout the country; not just NY.

But NYers are still subsidizing a bureaucracy to run the whole Regents system; create and administer the tests; and basically do what the College Board would do for them. It's basically the equivalent of insisting that everyone in NY carry horse blinders around in their handbags because the blinders made it safer back in 1866.

amother

Cyan

Mon, Feb 11 2019, 12:20 am

Delete

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amother

Cyan

Mon, Feb 11 2019, 12:21 am

Delete

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Fox

Mon, Feb 11 2019, 12:23 am

smileforamile wrote:

Really? False, false, and false. If you live in NY, you need a Regents diploma in order to go to college.

What colleges require this, and how do they accommodate non-NYers? When I checked into this extensively a few years ago, I couldn't find a single college that actually required a specific type of diploma.

For example, here are CUNY requirements:

CUNY Admissions

They suggest that NY students take whatever Regents options are considered most demanding, but unlike the SAT/ACT and minimum core subjects, they don't require it. They can't -- because regional accrediting agencies won't let them have separate entrance requirements for NYers and non-NYers.

amother

Cyan

Mon, Feb 11 2019, 12:29 am

Delete

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