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Forum -> Judaism -> Halachic Questions and Discussions

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sheindelnomi

Sun, Dec 09 2007, 11:08 pm

Today this topic came up and I was thinking I should share it with you.

Say, you walk near a river and you suddenly see two people drowning. You know both - one is a non-jewish person who is a very nice guy though; you know he saved Jews from persecution during the war and risked his life to do that! His father is Jewish, his mother, unfortunately, isn't.

The other guy is Jewish; he's been in and out of jail, nobody likes him, he's doing drugs etc., doesn't support his wife and kids etc. etc. Last month he was caught stealing from tzedakah boxes and so on.

Now, you can save just one person. What are you going to do ? Whom are you going to save ?

There's no time to go ask a rabbi. You have to decide at the spot !

amother

Sun, Dec 09 2007, 11:12 pm

Can we all NOT play into these trollish threads please? Thank you.

sheindelnomi

Mon, Dec 10 2007, 12:32 am

amother wrote:

Can we all NOT play into these trollish threads please? Thank you.

A lady ( few months into being baalas teshuvah ) brought this up on today's shiur. Honestly, we all know the answer, but I am just looking for the best way to tell her.

amother

Mon, Dec 10 2007, 12:50 am

[/quote]Honestly, we all know the answer, but I am just looking for the best way to tell her.[/quote]

do we????????????

shalhevet

Mon, Dec 10 2007, 3:57 am

It's really a tough one to answer, but I think this is maybe the best way:
Everyone has potential in life for something different, even if they are not living up to that potential. For example, ask her this: she saw two people drowning - one is working on a cure for cancer, although it will probably take him another five years to find it, while the other is an honest, hard-working street sweeper, who will certainly clean the streets well tomorrow morning. Who would you save?
I imagine most people will hum and hah and say who can compare the value of human life etc etc, but in the end they would save the researcher.

A Jew, no matter what his level is now, has a greater potential in life. And we have a mitzva to save a Jew's life just like we have other mitzvas in the Torah that we don't always understand.
(I would add that if he is stealing from tzedaka boxes maybe he would be considered a rodef (someone trying to kill others) and you wouldn't have to save him - but I don't think that was the point the OP was trying to make.)

amother

Mon, Dec 10 2007, 7:20 am

Quote:

A Jew, no matter what his level is now, has a greater potential in life. And we have a mitzva to save a Jew's life just like we have other mitzvas in the Torah that we don't always understand.

and you don't think that a righteous gentile who risked life and limb to save Jews is worthy of being saved?

shalhevet

Mon, Dec 10 2007, 8:04 am

amother wrote:

Quote:

A Jew, no matter what his level is now, has a greater potential in life. And we have a mitzva to save a Jew's life just like we have other mitzvas in the Torah that we don't always understand.

and you don't think that a righteous gentile who risked life and limb to save Jews is worthy of being saved?

That wasn't the question, and you knew it so well you weren't even prepared to use your screename.
The question was that you can only save one.

Clarissa

Mon, Dec 10 2007, 8:08 am

I'm not much of a swimmer. I'd call 911 and let them both get saved. Problem solved!

HindaRochel

Mon, Dec 10 2007, 8:13 am

close my eyes and grab one.
Honestly...how likely is it that one is faced with such a dilemma? By the time one figures out who comes first both have drowned.

HindaRochel

Mon, Dec 10 2007, 8:14 am

oh and I'd save my parents before a Rabbi and my kids before my Rabbi and my dh before my Rabbi even when I was angry at any of them but the Rabbi.

Ruchel

Mon, Dec 10 2007, 8:29 am

If I didn't know halacha I would save the righteous non Jew.

If I was sure halacha wanted me to save the Jew I don't know if I would be able to follow it, especially if his father is Jewish (he feels such a love for Jews that he may convert!).

If I saved the nasty Jew I would probably go crazy for not saving the deserving one.

brooklyn

Mon, Dec 10 2007, 8:45 am

A life is a life. Why is a Jewish life more than a non Jewish life? I think the Nazis had silmiliar thoughts just in reverse.

momof6

Mon, Dec 10 2007, 8:47 am

IRL You save whomever you are able to save (The one closest to you probably).
Halachikly we are responsible for those closest to us first.
This aplies IRL to tzedokah you save your family first, your comunity next (physical proximity or ppl you are close to), your ppl next (Jews), human beings then animals. When you have the ability to do all of the above, Great!
If you don't look out for your own.....

momof6

Mon, Dec 10 2007, 8:49 am

BTW check out R Mendel Kaplan's classes on Chabad.org he speaks about real life situations and Halacha

happyone

Mon, Dec 10 2007, 8:53 am

amother wrote:

Can we all NOT play into these trollish threads please? Thank you.

not sure what's trollish about this. I think it's a great theoretical question.

HindaRochel

Mon, Dec 10 2007, 8:56 am

link momof6?

BennysMommy

Mon, Dec 10 2007, 9:03 am

I would prob save the non-jew although that's prob not what I am supposed to do. I do like Clarissa's answer though. Maybe I'll call 911 too.

amother

Mon, Dec 10 2007, 10:02 am

happyone wrote:

amother wrote:

Can we all NOT play into these trollish threads please? Thank you.

not sure what's trollish about this. I think it's a great theoretical question.

sheindelnomi has a history of starting provocative threads and then disappearing to let everyone else fight. she isn't likely to participate in this one again - unless in response to this challenge! - or as various anonymous posters with provocative viewpoints. Click on her profile and read her past posts, especially the threads she started.

amother

Mon, Dec 10 2007, 10:11 am

did someone tell Motek that Shendelnomi's back? She has been so worried about her (?) after she got trashed in the "my neighbor wears slits" thread. Why are people taking this seriously?

sarahd

Mon, Dec 10 2007, 10:17 am

amother wrote:

happyone wrote:

amother wrote:

Can we all NOT play into these trollish threads please? Thank you.

not sure what's trollish about this. I think it's a great theoretical question.

You might very well be right, but it would be easier to take you seriously if you posted under your screenname.

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