Anti-Infanticide bill defeated!

imorethanamother

Tue, Feb 26 2019, 2:32 pm

simcha2 wrote:

Source please.

What percentage were to save the mother's life?

I have not read the bill.

I obviously don't agree with killing babies. I also don't agreee with using rhetoric in place of fact.

I also don't agree with using xtianity as the arbiter rather than the Torah.

I agree. I hate it when people throw around weird statistics that seem to come from websites with dubious sources. (righttolife.org or some such)

This NY Times piece, however, was quite damaging:

https://www.nytimes.com/1997/0......html

simcha2

Tue, Feb 26 2019, 2:35 pm

imorethanamother wrote:

Also from more than 20 years ago.

naturalmom5

Tue, Feb 26 2019, 3:10 pm

ectomorph wrote:

Exactly my point.

First killing disabled infants was permitted. Then others who don't enjoy life or contribute to society by their definition.

It's not a joke. Cortez said the other day that anyone over the age of 80 should die because no one really needs to live that long.

SixOfWands

Tue, Feb 26 2019, 3:15 pm

nchr wrote:

I'm not a democrat and there is no way I can accept that as fact without a source.

I'm not exactly a fan of hers myself, by the way. Its just too bizarre to be true. It would be all over every conservative site, not to mention most liberal ones.

BTW, infanticide is already illegal in the US.

ectomorph

Tue, Feb 26 2019, 3:26 pm

simcha2 wrote:

https://savethestorks.com/2017.....ions/

No one said anything about xianity.

Killing a baby after birth via neglect is also murder. Just like it would be murder to starve you to death.

I am leaving this thread because it is physically painful to me to see Jews condone and make light of murder.

Laiya

Tue, Feb 26 2019, 3:42 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

Please provide a citation with that exact quote.

I didn't see that quote, but she did say yesterday that people should strongly consider not having children, since the world will probably cease to exist in the next 12 years

FranticFrummie

Tue, Feb 26 2019, 3:49 pm

Laiya wrote:

I didn't see that quote, but she did say yesterday that people should strongly consider not having children, since the world will probably cease to exist in the next 12 years

I didn't know she was a prophet.

12 more years until Moshiach? Awesome!

SixOfWands

Tue, Feb 26 2019, 3:52 pm

Laiya wrote:

I didn't see that quote, but she did say yesterday that people should strongly consider not having children, since the world will probably cease to exist in the next 12 years

She didn't say that, either, but you're definitely getting warmer.

She said that we need to do something to reverse climate change, and if we don't, the planet is going to suffer serious consequences which will adversely impact children. And she questioned the morality of having children under those circumstance. She continued, “And even if you don’t have kids, there are still children here in the world and we have a moral obligation to them to leave a better world to them.”

Laiya

Tue, Feb 26 2019, 4:01 pm

Laiya wrote:

I didn't see that quote, but she did say yesterday that people should strongly consider not having children, since the world will probably cease to exist in the next 12 years

SixOfWands wrote:

She said more than that climate change will negatively impact children. She said asking whether it's "ok" to "still have children" is a "legitimate question".

SixOfWands

Tue, Feb 26 2019, 4:02 pm

Laiya wrote:

She said more than that climate change will negatively impact children. She said asking whether it's "ok" to "still have children" is a "legitimate question".

So you were making up the part about her saying that the world is ending in 12 years, right?

Fox

Tue, Feb 26 2019, 4:18 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

So the bill is symbolic, and no one really supports infanticide.

Well, Governor Northam's statement certainly leaves some doubt about that:

Quote:

"When we talk about third-trimester abortions, these are done with the consent of obviously the mother, with the consent of the physicians, more than one physician, by the way," Northam said. "And it's done in cases where there may be severe deformities, there may be a fetus that's non-viable. So in this particular example, if a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother. So I think this was really blown out of proportion."

If a child is non-viable, then resusitation/medical intervention won't help.

If the child is alive at the time of delivery, then he/she should receive medical intervention regardless of any discussion between the physician and mother.

SixOfWands

Tue, Feb 26 2019, 4:28 pm

Fox wrote:

I thought we already did this dance about the very strained reading of Northam's words.

So, if a baby is born breathing, but with a condition that is incompatible with life, you believe that neither the parent nor the doctor have any right to decide not to utilize extreme measures to prolong the death of the baby, even if those measures would cause the baby great pain.

(Can I assume that you believe that the government should be required to pay for the cost of such procedures?)

I disagree. I find that cruel to do to a baby. To do to anyone.

simcha2

Tue, Feb 26 2019, 4:28 pm

ectomorph wrote:

https://savethestorks.com/2017/05/real-reasons-women-abortions/

No one said anything about xianity.

Killing a baby after birth via neglect is also murder. Just like it would be murder to starve you to death.

I am leaving this thread because it is physically painful to me to see Jews condone and make light of murder.

No, that incredibly scientifically unsound link doesn't give the statistic you quoted.

Given that late term abortion is only permitted for medical reasons (health of mother or child), we can assume that if the child is healthy (from your unsubstantiated statistic) that it is the mother's health that is in danger, in line with halacha. (Not xtianity which assigns equal or greater value to the fetus than to the mother).

No one is making light of murder. To claim so is false.

Some posters are asking for accountability in posting of facts and quotes.

Laiya

Tue, Feb 26 2019, 4:44 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

So you were making up the part about her saying that the world is ending in 12 years, right?

You know, it's possible to phrase disagreement without sounding like a personal attack.

And no, I didn't make it up. A lobbying group had quoted her as saying that just a day earlier; a position that she did not dispute and seemed to allude to when she said, "We need a sense of urgency to turn this around in 10 years."