Totally at a loss of how to handle my child

amother

Green

Sun, Mar 10 2019, 10:56 pm

I am so sad. I have kids ages 10,9,8 and 4 years old Baruch HaShem. My 8 year old has for years now been extremely challenging and hard to raise.
There is so much to say and I don’t really know how to even describe it but the bottom line is she’s just very very difficult. She’s defiant and oppositional - that we’ve been told my therapist. And at home that comes out a long with just very bad behavior and lately, very emotional responses - crying easily and often. She’s dramatic. She’s stubborn. She’s strong and won’t reason. I hit a wall with her constantly. Tonight she cried to me and told me that nothing will help her change. I’ve had her in therapy a lot. Different therapists but same results - no change in her. So even she feels that therapy doesn’t help her. I don’t know where to go from here.
I was out tonight At a bat mitzvah and my 10-year-old was texting me about how bad my daughter was behaving and she said it caused her to scream a lot (there was a sitter here who I apologized a lot too, sounds like it was a very intense night). I feel bad for my oldest child because she happens to be a true angel and she tells me that her life is very hard having a sibling like my other daughter.
So tonight my daughter the one that misbehaves was crying to me about how she won’t ever change and I mentioned doing a behavioral chart and she said it’s not gonna help we tried it once before and then she said to me that she wishes I never had my four-year-old Bc she’s the reason she changed and became this way....
I don’t know any suggestions are really welcome because at this point I don’t feel like I have ability to help her.

amother

Red

Sun, Mar 10 2019, 11:10 pm

Daven a LOT.

Thank Hashem for the opportunity to daven.

Keep davening.

Don't give up.

Be comforted by the fact that lots and lots of people have kids like this and it is a sign that moshiach is imminent.

Thank you for posting and letting me write this because it is helping me.

I hope it can help you too.

Keep davening.

But also - try to catch her doing good. Start telling yourself and her that she is the GOOD one, not "the one that misbehaves".

Oh - and keep davening that Hashem will help you too see her precious neshama and all it's goodness.

amother

Green

Sun, Mar 10 2019, 11:10 pm

Yes we did a full nuero psych Eval and no educational delay or add or adhd was found in the Eval. Behavioral is the problem with her oppositional definance and there was an element of anxiety found in the Eval as well. We spoke about her recently - the Eval was done last May at the end of first grade - she said she wouldn’t even know what medicine to suggest right now if we would go that route.

amother

Green

Sun, Mar 10 2019, 11:14 pm

Mustard another would you say what medicine your son takes that helps him. I know my daughter doesn’t have adhd but maybe if it helps him be so much better it’s worth thinking about.
I’d do anything to have her be easier but not just for me. For my oldest daughter too, who struggles to find happiness at home because of her sister, for my son who walks off the school bus every single day with a complaint about something she did to him on the bus....and for my sanity. My face is always tense, my life always hard my blood pressure probably very high..., bc of her.

amother

Scarlet

Sun, Mar 10 2019, 11:17 pm

amother wrote:

Be comforted by the fact that lots and lots of people have kids like this and it is a sign that moshiach is imminent.

I empathize with OP.

BUT Halevei we dont go off the deep end with a child like that after many many years of speaking to a hundred experts, and trying our best and seeing no change, before Moshiach arrives.

amother

Green

Sun, Mar 10 2019, 11:18 pm

One of a kind
I’ve taken her to 3 therapists in my neighborhood and given each one significant time to help us.
The most recent one with been seeing for almost a year: I recently just stop taking her and said I want to switch to parent sessions. I wasn’t seeing one bit of change in all this time. She was getting cognitive behavioral therapy.

amother

Mint

Sun, Mar 10 2019, 11:26 pm

She says that as a result of the 4 year old's birth, she has become this way?
This is a vital statement that cannot be ignored.

Your child is trapped. She is trying to tell you something but is either afraid to, or does not trust your reaction or does not have the words to express it.

Please think. what happened when 4 y.o was born?
Did you go away?
was she left with someone?
she was 4 at the time.

Is it possible she was s-xually abused during that hectic period when you were having a child, and obviously very busy, tired, and overwhelmed with the new baby?
Is it possible she is still being abused and threatened if she tells?

Her statement to you about the 4 year old is too specific and too clear to be ignored.

Please don't dismiss the suggestion as 'ridiculous'
very often, children with behavioral diagnoses of opposition defiance, or conduct issues are really just traumatized.
they melt down over and over, and re-live the trauma, have bad dreams, engage in self-loathing behaviors such as cutting (She's young for that and I daven that will never emerge)
etc. etc.
May Hashem give you strength and clarity.
I will think about you and daven for you.

amother

Forestgreen

Sun, Mar 10 2019, 11:28 pm

It sounds like your daughter got used to being then youngest until the four year old came. Maybe try spending quality one-on-one time with her out of the house ( not to therapists. There also seems to be jealousy. Try to avoid anything that can arouse envy, especially toward the four year old. Also, try to praise her more, smile and sing with her more, and write down all of her good qualities and share it with her.

amother

Green

Sun, Mar 10 2019, 11:29 pm

To clarify her statement about my four-year-old she feels that my four-year-old has taken all the attention away from her. And she went from being the baby to not being the baby. My four-year-old is very attached to me. She sleeps in my bed. She gets a lot of attention from everyone especially the older kids they fight over her. It’s put my eight-year-old in a position to feel like I guess what middle children feel like...

amother

Seagreen

Sun, Mar 10 2019, 11:33 pm

Have you read anything by Ross Greene? A major motto of his is, "kids do well when they can." There's no such thing as a child who chooses to function poorly; there are only children who function poorly because they are missing one or many skills. Not every skill deficit has an official diagnosis, but that doesn't mean that there isn't a very real, neurological difference in that child's brain that makes learning and implementing that skill possible.

I would strongly consider seeing an experienced pediatric psychiatrist at this point to find out what pharmaceutical options may be available. Try to keep an open mind and think of it as a trial period. You said you've extensively tried the emotional/ behavioral route. It's very possible that she needs help on a chemical level. Even without an official diagnosis.

amother

Green

Sun, Mar 10 2019, 11:37 pm

Is it scary to try meds. Are there scary side effects. I’m anxious myself when it comes to medical things - is there any good thread here where I can read peoples experiences with using medication for similar reasons to this with their child? IT may help calm me down about it all if I can see what to expect.

amother

Mint

Sun, Mar 10 2019, 11:38 pm

thanks for explaining what she meant re. 4 y/o
but it still sounds like trauma based rage and behavioral issues.
Please rule out trauma.
you may need to talk it through with her; so she can see how you would respond
if she ever did confide in you.
It seems too extreme to be jealousy only.

rachel6543

Sun, Mar 10 2019, 11:39 pm

Wow, that sounds so hard. Sounds like you’re doing all the right things so far with getting medical eval and trying therapy.

I’m not an expert in this, but have you looked into seeing if she may have any food triggers that’s could possibly be linked to some of her behaviors. For instance, there have been studies showing some kids (like those with ADHD) can be sensitive to artificial food coloring. I have a kid with ADHD and I don’t allow any foods with fake food coloring anymore.

Also, is your child having more behavior issues at certain times of the day? When my kid started kindergarten he had some behavior issues and we found it was because he wasn’t eating enough at school. He would skip eating because he’d rather play on the playground at recess. I worked with his teachers to make sure he would eat enough food at lunch and snack times. Once he started eating more, he felt better and his behavior was much better.

In the past I’ve personally dealt with some anxiety issues and I have found that low blood sugar is a trigger for me. I know emotionally I feel so much better myself when I eat enough food throughout the day and eat more protein.

Also, is your child getting enough exercise? Exercise is good for anxiety/depression. Maybe something like gymnastics, dance, swimming, soccer... etc would be good for her. Or horseback riding. There are therapy horse programs, maybe look into something like that? I absolutely loved horseback riding as a kid and kids and horses have such a special connection.

Just trying to share some ideas from my personal experience that maybe you haven’t looked into yet.

amother

Silver

Sun, Mar 10 2019, 11:40 pm

amother wrote:

Obviously I don't know enough about what goes on in your home, but from this post alone, it does sound like your 4 year old is very babied and your 8 year old (and other kids) are missing out.

First of all, your 4 year old should sleep in her own bed.

Second, can you take the 8 year old out to dinner for special mommy daughter time, just you and her? Where you can solely focus on her.

(You may have to do the same with the other big kids so they don't get jealous. Maybe once a month per child. Or whatever you find that works for you).

Chana Miriam S

Sun, Mar 10 2019, 11:44 pm

Don’t laugh at me, but reading this reminded me of the severely autistic child who was a complete vilda Chaya in the magic pill documentary. Oncethey remived what bothered her from her food, she did great.

How about an elimination diet done as a team (we want to help you feel better and we need your help to do it!) to see if any foods make her feel crazy? Stranger things have happened.