Poor Shaming on Purim

southernbubby

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 10:36 pm

ectomorph wrote:

As I wrote here https://www.imamother.com/foru.....46554

It's a tiny minority and if it bothers you don't give. Stop being stingy with OTHER PEOPLE'S tzedaka!!

As I said, I always do give something but there was awhile that many more people came from Israel to collect and many people were concerned about it. There were articles written about it and communities made collectors carry letters.
BTW, it was either Ami or Mishpacha that several years ago had an article about the custom of sending meals to new mothers and letters to the editor went back and forth about the pressure on givers verses the benefits to recipients and guess what, I am not the only Debbie Downer!

amother

Orange

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 10:36 pm

It works me up when a meshulach from Eretz yisroel asks for tzedukah so that he can buy an apartment for the kids. We're married many years and are still renting. Our parents didn't help us out with that, We never bought an apartment and don't have the means for it. Why cant they rent if they cant afford to buy? There definitely are rentals available there too.
Also, we are not better off financially than most Israeli's. Let them beg for tzedukah in Israel, there are well to do people over there as well.

southernbubby

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 10:41 pm

amother wrote:

Thanks 🍊, luv ya sweetie 😘

southernbubby

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 10:48 pm

flowerpower wrote:

It really doesn’t bother me. My heart goes out to them. Do you think it’s fun to go knocking on doors for a few weeks? A yid is a yid. Who cares if he lives in EY or Timbaktu. They are so poor. At least they won’t have to worry about paying rent now.

I never said that my heart doesn't go out to them. I only said that the American frum community probably can't purchase diras for all who need. I don't care where they came from. It also doesn't matter what they are collecting for. Everyone gives what they can. I never told anyone not to give.

Mommyg8

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 11:05 pm

southernbubby wrote:

Lakewood requires all meshulachim to get vetted or whatever, and they all have to get a letter in order to collect. The letter writes what they are collecting for and has to be signed by the appropriate people. Most of the letters I have seen were for people with sick children, yesomim, etc. But im not seeing every meshulach though... probably.

amother

Black

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 11:23 pm

imorethanamother wrote:

So... WHY would your daughter not be friends with this girl now? This post made me so sad.

My son has someone in his class who has aspergers. I insisted my son invite him over on shabbos, repeatedly. He was upset at me for a while, but now it's just normal. It doesn't hurt anyone, it just spreads more happiness. Isn't that the lesson of Purim?

As a mother of a child that has Aspergers, I wish there were more people like you, you have no idea how much your kindness means to the child and his family, you have no idea!! Thank you for being kind!!!
May Hashem bless you and your family!

southernbubby

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 11:45 pm

ectomorph wrote:

The mitzva of tzedaka is to give what you can. It is an ayin ra'a to look upon poor people and think they dont deserve it or people shouldn't give them so much for whatever reason.

It's not a matter of what anyone "deserves". We are allowed to prioritize giving. We are only obligated to give a small amount to those who come to the door.
I would say that a family member who is forced to live off of peanut butter for a few months halachically comes before the collectors from Israel but as you say, it's complicated and poverty usually is complicated. I hope that you asked a Rav what to do about the impoverished but complicated relative. I have a relative who is poor and not frum but when I visit I bring him food.

amother

Jetblack

Tue, Mar 19 2019, 10:01 am

I know this is off topic to the OP but it was mentioned here and I want to share my story. We aren't "poo"- we eat better than PB sandwiches for dinner each night but don't eat out, even pizza, don't eat fancy foods or even chicken each night.
I don't get any tzeddakah. Nor government programs. But I cannot afford the pretty bows and matching clothes everyone else dresses their kids in. My kids do not have special shabbos shoes, the preschool boy doesn't wear a suit or other in style outfit etc. I am not one to cave into peer pressure but if all the "poor" kids get them donated, all the Rich kids buy them, where does that leave me? Lower- Middle, where even stretching won't let me spend $20 on a bow. But if those less off have them, my kids will soon be of age to wonder why can't they? (And replace bow with anything else instyle and donated...)
We focus on individuality, personal preferences, and I have even explained budgets to them in a general way. I hope I can keep it up as they are almost the only kids without the instyle things...

aricelli

Tue, Mar 19 2019, 10:03 am

amother wrote:

Oy- wrong thread- drinking too much and its not even purim yet!
I want to wish you all a wonderful purim - you and your loved ones

33055

Tue, Mar 19 2019, 10:13 am

amother wrote:

You are exactly the type of family I am concerned about. I don't begrudge poor people getting anything. I wish there was a way to to give to those in your situation also. It seems unfair that everything goes to the lowest level and then in turn hard working families become the lowest level.

southernbubby

Tue, Mar 19 2019, 10:21 am

amother wrote:

Jet black 😘😘😘
EXACTLY what Squishy and I are saying. If you heavily gift one group, you are probably short changing another. Organizations need to be aware of that.

I do feel however, and I think that halacha agrees with me, that sometimes we are the only ones aware of a situation so it falls on us to help. There are also people, may no Yid experience it, where severe illness may prevent the family from purchasing MM supplies and it becomes a mitzvah to take the kids to the candy store to have something to give out. If a teacher knows that a child has no means to participate in MM, she can ask friends to donate for the anonymous child.

That differs from an organization that gives lots of help to one group but then inadvertently creates a new needy group.

thunderstorm

Tue, Mar 19 2019, 10:41 am

amother wrote:

So I'm in the same boat as you. However I do want to say that I grew up poor and we lived off of tzedaka while my single mother worked and went to school. There were days we had cereal with water because there wasn't any milk left until Tomchei Shabbos delivered on Thursday or a new set of food stamps would come. My mother did receive vouchers for shoes at Schwartzs shoes in Brooklyn. We got new shoes in the Jewish stores but my mother always asked for last season's shoes or even older . She didn't feel comfortable having us dressed in that years fashion . We looked very put together in hand me Downs and new shoes. She bought us one headband or scrunchy for Yom Tov and we felt very with it and comfortable amongst our peers . Nowadays I can't afford shoes for the entire family before a Yom Tov or for school. We buy on an as needed basis. That means more often than not my kids don't have new with things to wear for Yom Tov. My mother bought lekovod Yom Tov always , because we were given lots of tzedaka around that time. I think if we didn't receive that tzedaka we would have felt extreme shame. So I believe it's amazing what tzedaka does , but I think it does put people in a higher income bracket in a bad position. When I'm struggling to pay $11.99 for a pair of Walmart Shabbos Shoes and my downstairs neighbors kids come to show off their new $90 Venettinis from Teschers that they got with kollel/Rebbe vouchers it sort of feels strange . But I totally fargin. I've been there. I'd rather struggle and not be eligible for assistance than have to rely on assistance and not know whether it will be coming or not .
Now back to the topic at hand

sky

Tue, Mar 19 2019, 11:20 am

southernbubby wrote:

I’ve also heard this being a problem.
A friend of mine sells a luxury level item.
She doesn’t understand why tzedakah organizations give vouchers to her business. She feels it creates an attitude of if she can afford it then I can afford it and she sees people coming who cannot. It really bothers her. (She herself isn’t very wealthy)

33055

Tue, Mar 19 2019, 11:57 am

ectomorph wrote:

You're conflating a bunch of things. People who get apartments in Israel live on pennies for the rest of their lives. People who get 20k are usually orphans that people want to make sure have a good start.

Basically what you and squishy are doing is looking at whatever anyone ever gets and making some fake combination of person who gets all of these things.

See my comments in italics above

Ectomorph,

I am not conflating people. You don't know, so you assume we are making up this. Things are done differently in different places. Can you admit that?

People with 2 parent families are regularly married off with tzedukah and get the furniture and the jewelry and the silver and the designer stuff. There is even a list of the minimum. When I got married, there was 3 lists.

I was offered everything on the top list which includes expensive furniture, linens, kallah jewelry, every kind of houseware you can imagine, and clothes.

This is why Rabbis are putting limits for the whole community.

amother

Periwinkle

Tue, Mar 19 2019, 11:57 am

I think what it comes down to is that some of us feel bad for the people who are stuck in the middle especially when they seemed to be hurt by these tzedakah organizations. Personally I can afford to buy the bows. I chose not but I can and I know I can so it's not me worrying about myself.

As others said everyone can decide how they want to use their money to help the community. For us the struggling middle class pulls at our heartstrings so we loan out money to people in that category. Paying for people to own apartments isn't so we don't. Others obviously chose otherwise.