Poor Shaming on Purim

little neshamala

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 8:59 am

southernbubby wrote:

Takanas
Let each family member or shul members draw names and just give to one of them. Same in classrooms.

I would be so upset if this happened. My DH and I make tons and tons of (kinda simple but nice) mishloach manos and we give them out to everyone, with an emphasis on those who we dont know that well.
People from our neighborhood who we arent such friends with (yet), people from around town who we interact with, people from the Yeshhiva, people we know have been going through a rough time....I cant even tell you how our lives have been enriched by this. We have created real relationships, become close with people, all fostered by giving MM. We dont expect in return, we often just leave it with a label.
My kids are learning a valuable lesson from all this giving. WE are learning a valuable leason from all this giving!
I dont like all these takanos. Enough. People need to find their true self worth, not put rules into place limitting others.

leah233

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 9:02 am

southernbubby wrote:

Takanas
Let each family member or shul members draw names and just give to one of them. Same in classrooms.

I can just imagine the imamother reaction to that idea.

Why do they have control everything...why do they always have to make new rues...The one day a year I can enjoy and be creative the rabbis took away....why can't anyone be a individual and make their own misolach monos….I absolutely must give to my sick relative/boss/person who did me a favor etc. and they are not letting me....It's only becuase they want....now I'll have no fun on Purim and be stuck with a bunch of kvetcy kids with nothing to do all day...

I left out plenty of other reactions but you can imagine.

Last edited by leah233 on Mon, Mar 18 2019, 9:19 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Azure

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 9:06 am

little neshamala wrote:

I dont notice any of this over the top mishloach manos stuff in my community BH-but I do believe there are those who see it, and feel pressure from it, like thunderstorm said.
But its not just purim.
People feel pressured to send to seminary when they can't afford it, to promise they'll support their kids when they cant afford it, clothe their children for yomtov in the high end Jewish boutiques when they cant afford it, make a fancy wedding when they cant afford it....

Bottom line? People need to learn to live within their means, and stop being so embarassed to do so. Be PROUD of the financial decision you make, be RESPONSIBLE in the financial choices you make, and stop being such a wuss about "well chaya needs to go to seminary because I dont want everyone to think shes weird" and "chaim needs a 6 piece band and real flowers by the wedding because everyone else does that". Seriously??? Come on, grow up!! Everybody just do what you can and thats it!

I heard a shiur from a Rav about the times of the Bais Hamikdash-the poor people brought simple bikurim and the wealthier brought lavish extravagent baskets. There were no takanos instituted. Because people recognized, if you can afford it, go for it! And if you cant, then dont!

This is hardly about mishloach manos. This is about pressure in general, and maybe needing a little more self esteem to be ok with living a bit simpler.

The Rav of our shul spoke to the men about the topic of financial pressures, and used the example of bikkurim to explain why he felt wedding takanos are not the answer to our problems. He explained that bikkurim were brought in big fancy gold baskets by the rich people and plain baskets by the poor,etc. And he said that it has always been that wealthy people looked wealthier and poorer people looked poorer, and the inbetween looked inbetween. We need to be able to be happy for the wealthier to make a fancier wedding and wear fancier clothes, and we need to be able to happily make a wedding that WE can afford. Happily. With our head held high. That we can afford.

amother

Burlywood

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 9:20 am

little neshamala wrote:

100% agree! But to help this along, we need to stop the brainwashing of our youth that you must go to seminary to be able to have the proper Hashkafos to be a yiddishe mom. Or that the only ideal way of a yiddishe life is to have a husband who sits and learns, even if it means on the back of your poor financially stressed parents.

Instead we should highlight the importance of living with your means, and living within the resources that Hashem has granted to each individual. Then perhaps we wouldn't be where we are today.

Zehava

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 9:20 am

Funny you talk about poor shaming. Let’s talk about rich shaming. If the hordes so much as get a whiff they you may be comfortable financially, which isn’t always true, they will hound you, harass you, and almost attack you once they’re inebriated enough.
I know people who escape to Florida to avoid the onslaught. But not everyone is willing to forego Purim with their families and friends. The aggressiveness and entitlement is unbelievable.

flowerpower

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 9:21 am

People that have pressure are the ones that make themselves a pressure! They make themselves a pressure for Purim, Pesach, and in their bungalow colony too. My sil is making an upsherin soon. She said she is making nothing and no one besides both grandparents can come because otherwise she’ll have a (self made unnecessary) pressure. I feel
Bad for such people.

I have never picked up the pressure vibe around neighbors, friends, or family. Everyone gives simple- the rich, the poor, and all in between. Some give nosh, some give homemade cookies, and some give a small wine with a cookie attached. I never judge anyone nor care what they give. It’s the connection between us that counts.

Regarding kids mm- my kids get basically some cheap junk from friends. They have yet to get lavish nosh. Smartfully school has a method to make sure each kid gets and that no one gets hurt.

southernbubby

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 9:24 am

amother wrote:

The reason that dinim of burial is what it is is because the rich would make fancy funerals and the poor were so ashamed that they simply abandoned the bodies.
OTOH, as long as the rich support the poor, nobody has the right to complain.

Zehava

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 9:25 am

flowerpower wrote:

Same
Those who are great cooks make something edible, the creative ones do a theme, and the rest take as much pressure as they want.

amother

Azure

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 9:29 am

southernbubby wrote:

Im sure our Rav was aware of that when he gave the speech over...look, I believe the point is that instead of restricting others and putting up all sorts of blanket rules, work on yourself not to feel pressured to do things you cant.

amother

Dodgerblue

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 9:31 am

Zehava wrote:

We take out a couple hundred and break it into ones. When that is done. Sorry. We have had idiots jumping in front of the car every single year.

amother

Burlywood

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 9:37 am

amother wrote:

I think those restrictions & blanket rules have the opposite effect. It further pushes the idea of conformity, that everyone must be and do the same. And then as things gradually get introduced, everyone is programmed to feel the importance of following along, instead of taking stock of their own situation.

We can't teach one way, and expect results of another way. We don't need to set standards and try to enforce conformity. We should just teach how its essential to live within your designated means.

keym

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 9:40 am

I agree the pressure could get out of hand.
But I would be very upset with "cookie cutter" standards. First of all, Purim is the time to be marbeh Shalom vreius. So I make 50-75 shalach manos worth no more than $1.00 including all wrappings and ribbons. And I share with everyone. Distant relatives, lonely people, friends.

But second of all, Purim is my creative day. Cute, creative costumes, witty and whimsical poems. Interesting packaging, that stuff. Takanos would hurt all of that in a RW world that creative and witty are not usually important.

southernbubby

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 9:40 am

amother wrote:

But the article is about a child whose poor mother did what she could but the unfortunate child who got her MM was crying and she was so embarrassed that she missed 2 weeks of school. She suggested that everyone in a class follow a certain format.

I personally am past that point in my life so MM isn't much of a production. I do see, however, that the competition in communities can be a complete turn-off to many people and I can't blame them for creating alternative communities or leaving all together.

ra_mom

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 9:40 am

amother wrote:

I agree 100%.

amother

Dodgerblue

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 9:45 am

amother wrote:

This thread is making me feel left out...

How come no one feels the need to send any elaborate MM to me?

Why do I end up after Purim with way too many types of wafers that no one seems to buy or eat any other time of the year?

How do I get an in with the MM beauty pageant crowd?

I'm willing to let them win. No problem.

I just want those MM.

Become friends with chassidim. They give the best MMs.