Poor Shaming on Purim

Dandelion1

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 10:06 am

The problem isn't the mishloach manot or the etrogs or the jewelry.

The problem is that for some reason this generation decided that everybody gets to get the same thing in this world.

Somehow, when we were little, we learned that some kids had fancy clothes and went to Disney World and some wore hand me downs and went to the sprinklers in the park. Did it seem fair? I don't even remember thinking of it in those terms. It just was what was. Everyone had what they had. And maybe the girl who went to Disney World had a mean mom who yelled all the time, or funny hair, or bad breath, so in a child's (brilliantly rational) mind, things often evened out in the end, somehow.

Who in their right mind would want to teach their kids that life is going to be fair?

JAWSCIENCE

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 10:23 am

I don’t get it. We moved to a wealthier community this year and none of this goes on

The teachers do not get mm except from the pta. I confirmed with friends who teach in the school. They do not give out addresses or expect and checks.

The kids have a class get together where they bring three mm and get three mm. Many parents have bought their three mm from the school it’s fundraiser. I again confirmed with the other parents - nobody goes around giving outside of the get together unless they happen to be related to a classmate so we’re going anyway. People don’t want the hassle.

Most people make cute mm so they are all “kiddie type” because they match the kids. Some will pay a person to make them for them and some will make themselves but they all contain the same stuff. In fact many are putting pencils and erasers to avoid giving so much candy.

The rabbi might get something nicer.

I have felt financial pressure about lots of things - summer plans, winter vacation, some people donate a lot to the shul and school etc. but not for Purim. Honestly
My kids are almost disappointed they don’t get to schlep to 20 friends.

little neshamala

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 10:57 am

amother wrote:

I think those restrictions & blanket rules have the opposite effect. It further pushes the idea of conformity, that everyone must be and do the same. And then as things gradually get introduced, everyone is programmed to feel the importance of following along, instead of taking stock of their own situation.

We can't teach one way, and expect results of another way. We don't need to set standards and try to enforce conformity. We should just teach how its essential to live within your designated means.

Exactly. Well said.

little neshamala

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 10:58 am

keym wrote:

I agree the pressure could get out of hand.
But I would be very upset with "cookie cutter" standards. First of all, Purim is the time to be marbeh Shalom vreius. So I make 50-75 shalach manos worth no more than $1.00 including all wrappings and ribbons. And I share with everyone. Distant relatives, lonely people, friends.

But second of all, Purim is my creative day. Cute, creative costumes, witty and whimsical poems. Interesting packaging, that stuff. Takanos would hurt all of that in a RW world that creative and witty are not usually important.

giselle

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 11:23 am

I did not read all three pages, but this is my take on MM specifically. I’ve posted before that I really enjoy coming up with creative ideas. Perhaps even spend more than a lot of people on MM. Not because I’m wealthy, but because we all pay to do things we enjoy. BUT none of my friends care or feel pressured. I have wealthier friends that spend a lot less on MM, because it’s not something they care about. I get a lot of “kiddy” mishloach manos from people who are neither BT or OOT. No one seems to care. I’ve yet to be part of this community where everyone’s mishloach manos have to top the other’s. That includes wealthy people. I appreciate aesthetically pleasing mishloach manos because I like seeing nice things and others’ creativity, but also really don’t care if you send a paper bag with veggie sticks and zaza. My kids like those better anyway, and that means less junk for me (which is a good thing Wink

)

SixOfWands

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 11:25 am

JAWSCIENCE wrote:

This would be my first suggestion. Teachers, rebbes, whatever you call them, may not accept individual MM (giving them time with their families instead of greeting students). You donate to the PTA (recommended donation; if you don't have it, give what you can) and every teacher, administrators and staff members gets MM and a tip, from everyone.

Shuls also distribute MM. You pay a small amount to participate, plus $1 or $2 or whatever per name. Again, I'd give a break to those who can't afford (with full knowledge that people will take advantage). Its a fundraiser for the shul.

Now that you've gotten rid of the umpteen "obligatory" MM, do what you want for your family or 3 closest friends or whatever.

Coffee Addict

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 11:49 am

I have a smart aunt. She says that all these pressure, weather it’s purim and MM or any other occasion people are making themselves homemade tzares! Literally. It’s not supposed to be this way at all.

Years ago When I was younger I also took it more seriously with much more pressure involved. Not anymore. Hell no! I’m bh older and wiser, life is stressful as it is. It’s bh a breeze for me. Life is to short to obsess over fancy shmancy MM. unless you LOVE it , go ahead and enjoy it in good health Very Happy

keym

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 12:13 pm

[quote="Coffee Addict"]

little neshamala wrote:

Youre totally my soul sister. We sound so similar! I LOVE sharing tons of MM with everyone...its so amazing to give...
(Except I dont do all the creative themes and poems myself-but I do enjoy them from other people!)[/quote

Funny that you say this! I always thought, that you 2 , little neshamala, and keym are soooo alike! You mamesh have the same minds most of the time!! Very Happy

You’re both very likable! 😘

Aw thanks. That's sweet. Truthfully I don't do themes cuz I won't fight my kids out of what they want to dress up as.
But I love the baking, assembling, designing cute labels, finding cute cheap packages and driving across town even in the traffic.

amother

Copper

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 12:23 pm

I'm the amother that poster about my husband, who's a Rebbi receiving "kiddie like" shalach manos. I feel terrible that you misunderstood me. I understand that you felt by virtue of the fact that I called it a "kiddie like" shalach manos, I was judging them. But I actually meant the exact opposite. I suppose the misunderstanding between us is because you didn't understand where j was coming from when I labeled the shalachanos like that. Let me explain, growing up, we were not a "Rebbi" family, and not close to financially secure, but my parents made sure that we went out of our way to give all our teachers ON Purim, and yes, gave them a nicer Shalach manos than other adults. They were teaching us childten about having Hakoras hatov for our teachers.
In my post, I was just pointing out how we appreciate ANY shalach Manos,even the "kiddie type"! I call it kiddie, cuz they were a colourful little baggies with a few laffy taffys and a bissli in it. I was trying to say Davka that we appreciate those shalach manos, cuz although they don't know about the idea of Davka giving a teacher a bit of a nicer shalach manos, they DID know about giving a teacher at all and demonstrating hakaras hatov!

Again, when I say "they don't know about the idea of Davka giving a nicer shalach manos to teachers", I am saying that NOT from the side of being a Rebbi, but from the side of being raised in a simple family that demonstraed this Hakaras Hatov for the teachers in this way.

amother

Copper

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 12:31 pm

Oh and regarding your whole premise of the OP, I understand your point and I agree!
Everyone should just give what they can (even if that means giving a "kiddie type" shalach manos to the kids teachers!)
We truly appreciate anything people send us, friends, family and students, no matter what they give! The fact that they stopped by our house on busy Purim day means so much to us! (Which was exactly my point on the Rebbi thread).
If you don't think giving teachers is necessary of Purim, then don't! But that thread wasnt asking about that,rather assuming giving the teacher was a given, and the question was must there be a check? My response was exactly with your point intended but I guess I wasn't clear. I was saying that it's absolutely not necessary to give a check! This is Purim and you are giving Shalach manos which involves FOOD not money. And giving the shalach manos alone on a busy Purim demonstrates the Hakaras Hatov that I believe is special to recognize in teachers.

amother

Seagreen

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 1:04 pm

We don't get any expensive or elaborate m"m and we're happy with whatever we get.

We live in a large suburban area and don't have time to deliver all around the various neighborhoods to all our family and friends and teachers and rebbis and kid's friends. We send m"m to our local friends and neighbors through the shul where we pay a set price and everyone gets the same nicely put together mishloach manos as long as they're members. We send to teachers and rabbeim and administrators through the school but there we pay approximately $3 per person we send to. We make 20 family m"m that we deliver to family and a couple of friends who aren't as local. Our m"m go with our theme but are not elaborate - we include a couple of store bought items and a couple of homemade items neatly labeled and packaged.

Our children each have a meetup at one classmate's house at a specific time where each child brings 25 individually wrapped items to share with his/her classmates so they all get the same thing and see each other's costumes and go home happy and the parents don't have to spend all day schlepping them around to deliver. They also make a few m"m to give to local friends who aren't classmates.

We deliver m"m to our shul rav but don't expect anything in return. The rav and rebbetzin set up a chocolate fountain with fruit and pretzels and marshmallows for the community members to enjoy a snack when they come visiting. It's not customary around here to give money along with m"m to anyone. We donate to matanos l'evyonim and that's it.

Once Purim is over and we've had a chance to see everyone's cute m"m we disassemble everything and sort into piles. We happily keep all the homemade items and healthier food and the chocolate and we let the kids pick out some favorites from amongst the real junk, but most of the packaged junk food gets bagged up and donated to a local organization that collects. They usually have donation boxes in all the schools and grocery stores right after Purim.

Purim is a bit of a logistical nightmare because we have to juggle everyone's schedules and we only have one car, but otherwise it's a fun holiday and everyone enjoys. We don't feel any pressure to do or be anything other than ourselves.

amother

Dodgerblue

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 1:11 pm

amother wrote:

I don't get shul MMs. You give and get back the same thing. In my neighborhood you pay for as many MMs as you want to send. You end up getting back as many as people send to you from the shul MMs. You can end up with several of the same you gave. I rather gp pay for food I enjoy.

I don't like institutionalized MMs. They are impersonal. I love the fun and personal ones.

SixOfWands

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 1:23 pm

amother wrote:

Our shul sends ONE to each person, with the name of all people who selected your name.

Its a huge fundraiser; that's the point.

Flip Flops

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 1:34 pm

I believe in "change yourself and you have changed the world".
When it comes to Purim, many people enjoy going all out and creating an elaborate MM. Others would rather keep it simple. Instead of trying to change society, do what you want! Stop caring about what everyone will think! If you want to give something simple - go for it!
Many people love to give every person they have ever met and it is a beautiful thing. But if you feel pressured by it, please don't.
Just do what is good for you and stop worrying about everyone else.