Vegans invited themselves for Pesach... and we're chabad

amother

Sapphire

Wed, Apr 17 2019, 5:27 am

Just some little questions, really for raisin

Raisin wrote:

If they are DL they may eat kitnios also.

Plus you can eat kitnios, gebrokts, and processed stuff on shabbos.

1) Is that because there is a good chance that they are Sfardi? Or is the assumption that one who is Dati Liumi (which I understand-correct me if I am wrong is Modern Orthodox ) is "less frum" and therefore less machmir?

I understand the whole not "mish" thing. Fyi, many MO do not "mish" either.
And I SURLY would not let non-vaccinated people near my babies!!!

2) My second question is about kitniot, gebrochts (many MO don't eat as well), and processed food on Shabbos- I imagine it is because in Israel Pesach will be over -what about the dishes... won't they still be out and the same? How would one do that logistically?

My questions are not judging, just trying to have a better understanding (and hence appreciation) of people different than myself.

WhatFor

Wed, Apr 17 2019, 5:29 am

amother [ Sapphire ] wrote:

Just some little questions, really for raisin
1) Is that because there is a good chance that they are Sfardi? Or is the assumption that one who is Dati Liumi (which I understand-correct me if I am wrong is Modern Orthodox ) is "less frum" and therefore less machmir?

I understand the whole not "mish" thing. Fyi, many MO do not "mish" either.
And I SURLY would not let non-vaccinated people near my babies!!!

2) My second question is about kitniot, gebrochts (many MO don't eat as well), and processed food on Shabbos- what the dishes... still be out and the same? How would one do that?

My questions are not judging, just trying to have a better understanding (and hence appreciation) of people different than myself.

I can't speak for raisin but I don't think of someone who eats kitniyot as "less frum" and DL is not the same thing as MO.

amother

Sapphire

Wed, Apr 17 2019, 5:47 am

WhatFor wrote:

I can't speak for raisin but I don't think of someone who eats kitniyot as "less frum" and DL is not the same thing as MO.

Thank you for responding. To clarify, I was not implying or asking if eating kitniyot is less frum - I would hate to think that someone would feel that one person's minhag is superior. It was more of a question if they felt they picked and choose. I have a not frum coworker- drives on Shabbos, doesn't keep TH, eats out in non-kosher restaurants .....and she is of Eastern European descent, but feels that if sfardim can eat it, it must be ok, and she can too.

Regarding DL- what is it? I googled and Wikipedia (not the best source) said National religious- combines Zionism with orthodoxy. Isn't that the B"A concept of Am Israel Beretz Israel, Al pi Torat Israel?
My imagine is a chayal guarding the border- protecting our people, with a gun over his shoulder, (taking his scheduled break) siddur in hand, laying tifillin.

WhatFor

Wed, Apr 17 2019, 6:04 am

amother [ Sapphire ] wrote:

I think this is an interesting discussion but probably for a spin-off because I don't want to hijack OP's thread!

Israeli_C

Wed, Apr 17 2019, 6:12 am

RE the whole question of DL etc - it's a big question, the differences are largely political. I'm living in a community where 90% are dati leumi (the majority 'torani' / 'chardal' - ie right wing DL). The only time it's an issue is in terms of kashrut, since most, if not all, of our DL friends eat machpud meat, Beit Yosef products etc and we don't. Our vegan friends are more lenient than most of the people in our community (in terms of kashrut they get a lot of organic foods, Asian or other foreign imported products with unclear kashrut status which is problematic for us). They're ashkenazi but started eating kitniyot during pesach because basically vegan ashkenazim don't have many options foodwise. I can't cook kitniyot in my pesach kitchen.

As for needing to get a backbone- I can understand totally why someone would tell me this. If I was an outsider looking in, I'd say the same, if not something stronger. However like most women I like to keep DH happy and, especially coming up to the chag when he'll have a (VERY rare) 1 week vacation from work, I really don't want to spoil the atmosphere. He's very sincere and loyal to friends (even those who, like this family, already moved away) and sometimes it comes at the price of shalom bayit, unfortunately.

amother

Smokey

Wed, Apr 17 2019, 6:32 am

It sounds to me like these are friends of your husbands.

Of course it would be easy if your dh can simply call them back and tell them that “ my wife is just not up to having guests now “. It’s easily understood that you have young children and it’s pesach which is a difficult Chag to prepare for.

Since it sounds like dh wants them to come and you want dh to be happy, your only choice is to figure out some sort of menu. Have dh explain that Chabad has strict halachot for pesach and you can’t accept any outside food. I serve lots of meat and chicken on pesach so I can’t help you with a menu. I’m sure others can! Do they eat fish? If so, there’s a fish with veggies and sauce recipe that can be a main course. Zucchini soup...

Not sure what to tell you about measles... pray that they are all healthy!

Good thing you live in Israel and it’s only 2 meals! Here it’s four meal, 2 long days...

I do think that being with friends on yomtov is good when you can’t be with family..

Good luck!

Seashell

Wed, Apr 17 2019, 6:33 am

Op,
You’ve written b4 about how little your husband helps out in particular on shabbos and YT, and are barely managing your own brood, k”h you have 4 little ones I think? Including twin babies! Most of us would be struggling!! You need to learn to say NO, or you will collapse. We all care about you here. “I’m sorry DH we have 4 little kinderlach including twin babies, I am not up to hosting. End of discussion.” When your DH starts taking care of at least 50% of the child care & house care u can revisit the issue. Until then, he needs to understand until the twins are a year old minimum you are in survival mode, and NOTHING extra can be taken on!!! I’m not sure why he seems so clueless but since he is you need to speak up for yourself and your kids. Don’t let yourself turn into a shmatte.

Sebastian

Wed, Apr 17 2019, 6:49 am

no no no! You cannot have unvaxed visitors near your babies. Full stop. Also you have 4 littles and need to supervise them, you can't be dealing with finicky guests and their special diets. I think this year you have a perfect excuse not to host. Call dh's rav and have him knock some sense into his head. You can also tell dh that he can't spend extra time in shul and needs to be home helping more if you're hosting.

This year imo your chiyuv is to focus on your children and not host others.

They choose not to vaccinate, they choose to be vegan, let them make their own food.

trixx

Wed, Apr 17 2019, 7:51 am

Israeli_C wrote:

Pesach kasher v'sameach to all!

Just broke the news and DH is upset. Hes searching for an apartment for them in the area at the moment. He said that I could be 'creative with vegetables' and that 'you never know who else is not vaccinated in our community, so why are you davka so anti this couple??'

He's not helping you at the moment or being creative for you?
OP I really don't get your husband. Not trying to cause issues between you. But really from everything you posted this is much more than "not wanting to spoil his one week of vacation". This is ridiculous.

amother

Sapphire

Wed, Apr 17 2019, 7:54 am

Israeli_C wrote:

Thank you for explaining to me as I am an unexposed American. A lot of this is really a foreign concept. I need to explore further to better understand (I have no idea what those meats are. In my world it is much less complicated, it is OU/Kof -K...... or under the RCBC... or not). When we were in Israel, my S-I-L and niece told us explicitly where to eat and where not to. Finished).

Regarding a spine, obviously you need to prioritize your children's health and safety, along with your own capacity- there is a difference between generous and self sacrificing, and that is a determination only you can make. Compromise and pleasing others (as long as it is not in the sense of seeking approval) is a huge strength and a mitzvah, not a weakness, and doesn't not make one a smatta.
Aahron Hazadik- ohev shalom orodef shalom.
But what I really keep coming back to is vaccines and your babies.

Have a wonderful Yom Tov.

amother

Blue

Wed, Apr 17 2019, 8:09 am

1. I'd cancel with this explanation: hi Mr..... I'm sorry, I have to let you know that we don't have guests over who don't vaccinate their kids. Please don't take it personal it's just for safety and health reasons. Hope you have a wonderful chag!

2. If any other vegans decided to crash my Seder I'd give them potatoes and strong beans and salad. That's what they eat not Ally anyway, I guess?