Is there a correlation- Increase of Gashmiyus = Antisemitism

byisrael

Tue, Apr 30 2019, 1:13 am

So there seems to be an increase in anti- semitism recently (attacks in brooklyn, shooting in pittsburgh and poway, NYT cartoon ect.)

I was having a discussion was wondering what people think.
Jews (secular and religious) have never been so financially successful in the US. Yes there are a lot of people who struggle but as a group the previous generation of immagrants and surrvivors have raised children who are mainly well educated proffesionals in the secular and Modox world and even in the Yeshivish/Chasidic world have a high income and standard of living compared to non jews with similar incomes.

Combined with the fact that many frum enclaves are in areas that where the non- jewish community/nearby non jewish communities area pretty low income (Flatbush,Crown Heights, the UWS, Lakewood, 5 towns, Riverdale, LA). Yes the neighborhoods we live in tend to be expensive (and the gentrification causes resentment) but in many places they are bordered by very low income areas.

In the past 15- 20 years the frum standards of living have skyrocketed. Our homes tend to be large and beautiful, and in frum areas there is alot of knocking down of the existing homes and building large beautiful ones (lakewood is an extreme example of this but this exists to some extant all over).
From the outside everything tends to look very expensive and glamorous (the fancy strollers, leased cars, gorgeous sheitals, brand name clothing, huge (on secular standards) weddings)...

Do you think this has contributed to the increase in anti- semitism or is it more of a case where the existing anti-semitism was not PC for a while after the holcaust because of guilt/compassionbut this is wearing off ????

DrMom

Tue, Apr 30 2019, 1:28 am

Maybe. But overall the US doing well, financially.

Also, Poles were very willing to collaborate with the Nazis and exterminate their Jewish brethren, and Jews living in Poland were not exactly a wealthy community.

In short:

- If Jews are well-off, anti-Semites will cite Jewish wealth control as justification for their anti-Semitism.
- If Jews are poor, anti-Semites will cite Jewish filth (think of Nazi propaganda films comparing Jews to rats and vermin) as justification for their anti-Semitism.

amother

Ginger

Tue, Apr 30 2019, 5:34 am

I wouldn't say that's the cause. Anti semitism will be around no matter if Jews are poor or rich.

I work with only non Jews and they don't like all the showing off, all the extravaganza that they see in the frum Jewish or just Jewish world. They dislike it but they don't hate Jews. They say they think it's ridiculous to spend so much on clothing, to have so many kids, holidays etc but they would say it aswell if it was Catholic people.

BadTichelDay

Tue, Apr 30 2019, 5:37 am

byisrael wrote:

... or is it more of a case where the existing anti-semitism was not PC for a while after the holcaust because of guilt/compassionbut this is wearing off ????

^^ This.
Antisemites have accused Jews at all times and also today, of being rich and exploiting society, of being poor and leeching of benefits, of being capitalists, of being communists, of being multiculturalists, of being separatists, of being super-humans who control the world, of being subhumans... you get the picture.
They will accuse Jews of whatever suits their agenda at that moment, even if the accusations contradict each other. Even if they are absurd.
These days, antisemitism is simply becoming acceptable again and therefore bursts out of the closet.

amother

Natural

Tue, Apr 30 2019, 7:37 am

byisrael wrote:

It is possibly a contributing factor even though anti-semitism always seems to be around. At the very least, the gashmius doesn’t help at all.

dancingqueen

Tue, Apr 30 2019, 9:25 am

byisrael wrote:

Yes I absolutely think ostentatious living increases anti-semitism.

IrenaFr

Tue, Apr 30 2019, 9:52 am

Ruchel wrote:

YES PEOPLE LOVED US IN THE SHTETL

Yes ! And I remember very well how they "loved" us in Soviet Union were everybody had nothing and jews were not allowed to get high education in the big cities, no management positions in the Communist Party or anywhere.
I have lots of stories in my family and even myself. How people openly said that they hate jews and just waiting to another new pogrom.

ShishKabob

Tue, Apr 30 2019, 11:40 am

Absolutely not! It's a fact that has nothing to do with wealth.

One of the blessings of Yaakov was that when he will be strong with Torah (not word for word) then he will be sholet Eisav, and when he (we) will be weak then Eisav will be sholet over us.
So this is my way of interpreting this.

We need to get stronger spiritually and with Torah and Mitzvos and then we will not have to fear.

This equating anti Semitism with wealth comes from the non jews themselves. Please don't accept this as an excuse or a reason.
Like the other poster said, it's always a good thing to be low key and not ostentatious.

baltomom

Tue, Apr 30 2019, 12:14 pm

After reading recently about antisemitism in Lakewood I was inspired to look up a Kli Yakar I vaguely remembered from Parshas Devarim (2;3), on the words "rav lachem sov es hahar hazeh, pnu lachem tzafona." He explains that this is a message for generations, that when it's Esav's time Yisrael should turn "tzafona"--to hidden, meaning that when Jews in galus have financial success they should hide it "bifnei Esav", because Esav is very jealous of Yisrael, since they believe that all the financial success is stolen from them since Yaakov took Esav's bracha. He goes on to say (my translation): This is the opposite of what Jews do in this generation (he wrote this in the 1600s!!!) when anyone who has money dresses fancy and builds beautiful large houses to appear as if they are wealthier than they are, and this incites the nations against them. It's worth reading inside--and a very important message to us.

amother

Blue

Tue, Apr 30 2019, 1:53 pm

byisrael wrote:

There’s no need to guess what the causes are, and there’s no purpose to it, as it won’t help. The hatred is completely irrational according to normal logic. Even if you’re jealous of someone who has something you don’t, a normal, rational person doesn’t resort to killing or violence. Hatred of Jews, driven by jealousy, is written in the Torah, and continues throughout golus. Eisav Sonei Es Yaakov. This is how Hashem runs the world. Nothing we have done or can do has caused it or can change it.

ShishKabob

Tue, Apr 30 2019, 1:56 pm

baltomom wrote:

Thank you for this eye opener.