What would it take for you to make Aliyah?

amother

White

Wed, May 01 2019, 5:04 am

I find this thread so depressing. Sure, for some people, Aliyah isn't an option. But for lost, it is an option. I promise, you don't need an American house or an Anglo bubble (both of which you actually can have here) or an American salary. You do need to make some sacrifices and you will need to learn Hebrew.

The education and lifestyle for kids here is amazing and cannot compare to most places in the world. Israel values children.

Stop waiting for mashiach and take steps to bring about a better world. You have the opportunity to make a difference with the Jewish people here in Israel. So come already.

And those who are saying they'll come when their kids are older and finished with school? You'll then end up with kids in a different country than you and who wants to leave their grandkids?

Seriously, it has never been easier to make aliyah.

kalsee

Wed, May 01 2019, 5:18 am

Forrealx wrote:

I’m not British I’m dutch/German. And funny you guys are not mocking on the chassidishe but me... ok dh and me don’t want to go to Israel and not to make Aliyah too hot, expensive and not nice people. U want to know something nice of Israel well I can eat almost
Everywhere and get for cheap nice tzniusdik things but the society as whole I don’t like.

Do you know that it is assur to talk bad about Eretz Yisrael?

amother

Cerise

Wed, May 01 2019, 5:24 am

Israeli_C wrote:

Ah, yes, Germany.
Always such a wonderful place to be Jewish.

She didn't say she lives in Germany.
I do live in Germany. It's definitely less than ideal but for those who were born and grew up here it's our home. Like it or not, it's the truth. People are used to certain things... Things get done in Germany. I LOVE Israel but it drove me nuts that things are always taking forever and people can be very rude if you're going for a Visa or whatever.
Also customer service etc. It's a comfort zone some people aren't willing to compromise on.
As I said, I love Israel, we go on vacation there but I prefer earning good money here and being able to vacation in Israel and give zedaka there than living there and being poor and feeling out of place.
If my kids want to move there, there's plenty of programs for the last years of highschool.

etky

Wed, May 01 2019, 5:37 am

amother [ Cerise ] wrote:

At least you are honest.

amother

Blonde

Wed, May 01 2019, 5:45 am

amother [ Yellow ] wrote:

Mind if I ask why you say that?

B/c right now I’m doing what’s best for my kids, so I’m sticking with the status quo, giving in to pressure from community, my family, schools. But once I’m not around anyone and can make my own decisions without fear of losing my kids I’ll probably give it up. I wouldn’t dream of moving until my kids are grown so I don’t have to deal with what I am now. No schools telling me how to dress, no pressure to keep having kids I don’t want. Maybe if my dh agreed to a more modern community but he doesn’t and wouldn’t even consider modern.

BadTichelDay

Wed, May 01 2019, 6:05 am

I've made Aliyah more than 10 years ago, because I wanted to, not because of any external force. I've never regretted it and never seriously thought of going back.
So I do earn less money here - but I feel that I do have enough, B"H, and don't feel lack.
I have less job security, theoretically. My employer could fire me any time at a month's notice. However, for the last 9 years, they somehow have failed to do so... that's longer than any job I've had before I made Aliyah.
Hashem runs the world and decides on everyone's budget on Rosh Hashana. That applies in every country. Being in the US or Europe doesn't guarantee you safety from financial troubles. And being in Israel doesn't make you poor automatically, as some seem to think.

Regarding rudeness - yes, people are less into formal politeness and pc here in Israel. At times, that's annoying and at times, liberating. Israelis are also a lot more helpful and watch out for each other than people in politer countries. I've been offered help in different situations from total strangers. I've been invited and gotten gifts from strangers in situations of need. Even the word strangers doesn't fit. It's more like a big, sometimes a bit dysfunctional, family. Very literally, nobody starves in Israel (forget those tzedakah ads, they are exaggerating!) - there is always someone to help you in times of need. I wouldn't want to switch back to the Western cool, smooth and heartless politeness.

Regarding the draft - let's get the facts straight: Full time yeshiva students who study in a recognized yeshiva, have to register with the army and then get annual deferments until they are too old to serve. They don't force hareidi yeshiva boys to serve. The people who make a wave about the draft, the peleg yerushalmi, are opposed to even registering and getting deferments because they think that gives the army de facto recognition. They go to jail over failure to register, not about failure to actually join the army. Be assured, there are very, very few hareidim in the army. The ones that are, agreed to join and are mostly in one or two flagship "frum" units.

Have it your way. I love Israel.

FranticFrummie

Wed, May 01 2019, 6:53 am

The most important thing you can bring with you on your Aliyah is your attitude.

The most successful people are coming here because they are moving towards something, not running away from something. Still, if you have what to run away from, Israel is calling you home.

I've lived here for 4 years, had many roller coaster experiences, and I still don't regret it for a single minute.

DD hated it and moved back to the US. That's her derech right now, and I respect her decision. I still think this is the best place for me, and by far the best place on earth.

youngishbear

Wed, May 01 2019, 7:43 am

amother [ White ] wrote:

The bolded rubs me the wrong way. Taking steps to make the world a better place should not involve stopping to wait for Moshiach.

someone

Wed, May 01 2019, 8:05 am

You know what, things that people have said on this thread and another related thread today are true - it isn't practical or logical to pick yourself up and move across the world. But it wasn't so practical or logical when a nation of slaves started wandering through the desert. Or when Nachshon ben Amindav walked into the sea. Or many, many other incidents in Jewish history. The State of Israel is a country that defies logic and practicality. We are surrounded by ananei kavod, and have had the sea split for us countless times. According to logic and common sense we should have been wiped off the map 71 years ago. But here we are, not just surviving but thriving. We are not just another country, where practical considerations should govern what we do or don't do, we are ארץ אשר עיני ד' אלוקיך בה מראשית שנה עד אחרית שנה - the land Hashem constantly watches over. And yes, there is still a lot of work to do in this miraculous country, many many things that need correcting and perfecting, but after 2000 years of being passive observers of history we have been given a G-dly opportunity to take an active role. Come and join us in our ananei kavod, there's room here for all of you.

someone

Wed, May 01 2019, 8:10 am

amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:

Just curious to know what the "no excuses" people think one should do if their spouse doesn't agree on the matter. Should they work on convincing them, at the risk of creating Shalom bayis issues where there previously were none? Should the spouse wanting to make aliyah get divorced?

The gemara in Ketubot says yes. A wife can demand a divorce from her husband if he doesn't want to move to EY, and a husband can divorce his wife without her ketubah in the opposite situation. Practically, nowadays obviously it's much more complicated than that. And no, personally I don't think people should get divorced over it. That's one of the reasons I made Aliyah when I was single, because I know too many people (including my own parents) who got stuck because one spouse wanted to make Aliyah and the other didn't. But to answer your question, yes I think it should be discussed seriously and I would hope that two adults who genuinely want to do what is best can disagree and try to clarify important issues without it creating shalom bayis issues.

amother

Lavender

Wed, May 01 2019, 8:31 am

Israeli_C wrote:

Hoooooo...

As someone born in Ireland and who was once your nextdoor neighbour (hello!), I hate to break it to you but British 'politeness' is about as real as Katie Price's you-know-whats. In Israel, what you see is what you get. And after 23 years of enduring BS 'politeness' and breaking my back bending over for social etiquette, I find the Israeli approach VERY liberating! When someone's my friend she's REALLY my friend.
She'd cut off her right arm for me and be there for me to the bitter end.
She'll give me directions and walk by my side even though she doesn't have a clue where we're going.
She'll run a few blocks just to return my baby's pacifier after it fell out of the pram.
She'll tell me my clothes tag is showing and tuck it in for me and give me a clap on the back.
She'll scream at some randomer in the supermarket and cause a scene because they cut ME in the queue. Even though she wasn't even lining up.

I never had such strong bonds with my fellow countrymen. When I returned from my first trip to Israel, the plane landed and all the Israelis got off the plane and scattered themselves, getting usurped into the crowds of a foreign airport. And I never felt so alone. I could have cried. I think that's when I knew that whatever happens, my destiny is with the Jewish people and the Jewish people's destiny lies in Israel.

I can’t like this post enough!!
We lived in UK for a few years and made aliyah recently and my husband says the same thing the whole time!!

amother

Lavender

Wed, May 01 2019, 8:37 am

amother [ Cerise ] wrote:

Regarding this.
I don’t think the customer service here is any worse than the Jewish stores in the rest of the world!
USA Jewish stores the customer service is TERRIBLE as well!

amother

Vermilion

Wed, May 01 2019, 8:48 am

someone wrote:

Halacha also considers burning your husband's dinner grounds for divorce. Also, the halacha is that one may leave EY for better learning opportunities (not relevant in this day and age when bh the best yeshivas in the world are now in EY) or to find a spouse. So the issue is not cut and dried. I went to a seminary that pushed aliyah very strongly, but they also emphasized that it was important not to let that restrict marriage opportunities. We actually very nearly made aliyah right after getting married, but then and emergency happened and we had to push it off. Now, years layer, we could do it, but dh, who has never felt as strongly about it as I have, doesn't want to. And no, it's not so simple as "have a real discussion like adults". Any major issue where compromise is not possible and with the potential to be very emotional needs to be treated carefully. Every time it comes up, there is a risk of one feeling hounded or pressured and the other feeling dismissed. It's really not a simple matter.