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-> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
pesek zman
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 Wed, May 01 2019, 5:45 pm
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So many sheep!!! I am raising my daughter to be an independent thinker and to have the confidence to make her own choices. I didn’t go to seminary: it didn’t interest me. Never looked back. And I got married. Everyone goes? So what? I’ve never done what everyone does. I can’t believe ‘because everyone does’ is really a consideration! How boring!
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little neshamala
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Wed, May 01 2019, 6:08 pm
| pesek zman wrote: | | So many sheep!!! I am raising my daughter to be an independent thinker and to have the confidence to make her own choices. I didn’t go to seminary: it didn’t interest me. Never looked back. And I got married. Everyone goes? So what? I’ve never done what everyone does. I can’t believe ‘because everyone does’ is really a consideration! How boring! |
I agree with you.
Im also alarmed over how many things people seem to do because of everyone else. They make lavish weddings they cant afford because "they have to", they dress their kids in expensive yomtov couture because "they have to", they overstress mishloach manos because "thats whats done" (remember the mishloach manos thread? People were suggesting takanos)....
Ladies, you do not need to do anything besides for whats most beneficial for you and your family.
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amother
White
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Wed, May 01 2019, 6:21 pm
Just my thoughts here:
when people are saying she will have "no friends if she stays home" this makes no sense to me. Why can't she be friends with the girls one year older who have just come back from seminary? that's what happens after you graduate anyway, your circle of friends expand to include people from other grades. I was in high school 20 years ago and I had friends who were in other grades.
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amother
OP
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Wed, May 01 2019, 7:36 pm
| SixOfWands wrote: | Its entirely possible that she meant that Baby's Got Back.
All joking aside, OP, if your DD doesn't want to go to seminary, she shouldn't go. There's no guarantee that it will help -- or hurt -- her search for a spouse. I strongly suspect that my DD2 won't go.
BUT if you're from a community where virtually every young woman attends seminary, she should be able to articulate a good reason for her decision. Because people often don't like "different," and she may well be making herself "different." |
Honestly before this thead I didn't know that curvy meant only chest size on imamother. I meant she has a nice figure.
DD doesn't have a good reason not to go.
I don't understand the necessity of seminary anyway. She has a superb yeshivah education and learned whatever she needs to run a kosher house at home.
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chestnut
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Wed, May 01 2019, 7:41 pm
| amother [ Brown ] wrote: | Things like this bother me so much. Youre just perpetuating the fear that seminary is a must. For goodness sake! Have you tried the other option? Like I have? Because it worked just fine for me.
I feel SO BAD for all of you who feel this way. You really have these guidelines of things you must do for a shidduch?? So many women here worry about finances. Endlessly. Yet instead of encouraging them to do what is right for their own daughter, and to evaluate each scenario on its own, you inject this fear....this awful creeping fear, that pushes them to spend money they dont have, on something they dont need.
I know OP has money.
Im talking about all the other people in the same boat who dont.
And honestly, money aside...have a little backbone people! I mean, come on!! Grow a spine! You dont think your son should go to a certain yeshiva? Dont send him. You dont think you should paint your walls pink? Dont. You dont think your son needs a lavish bar mitzvah kiddush? Dont make one.You dont think your daughter needs a year in sem? Dont send her.
You do think she can really benefit from a year in sem? Then do send her!
But pleeeeeease take a look around at all the older single girls out there and tell yourself honestly if you see a common denominator that most of them skipped seminary. |
You can be as bothered by this as you'd like, but what I said is the truth in the yeshivishe circles. OP asked how it'll affect shidduchim. There's no issue of money for the family. The very first question every single shadchan and boy's mother will have is why she didn't go to seminary. Starting college earlier doesn't really help cause nowadays pretty much each seminary gives college credits.
Are there girls who don't go to seminary and get married right away to great boys? Sure. Are there women who went to all the right places and are still single on their 40s? Absolutely. However, we are talking in general.
No, it's not the same as going only to this yeshiva or that seminary. I was clear that Israel isn't a must. And it's most definitely not the same as dressing kids in matching designer clothing.
I think all these "I wouldn't care one bit" answers are actually doing the OP a disservice cause, for all we know (and most probably), her community is NOT the same as Imamother posters. The same thing is with all those "would you be ok with your son/daughter marrying a ger/geyores/BT?" Imamother posters and OP communities are often completely different
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amother
OP
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Wed, May 01 2019, 7:56 pm
| amother [ Goldenrod ] wrote: | Amother fuschia, yes, money talks. But it's still not a guarantee that shidduchim will go easy. Money isn't everything.
OP seems to think that because her DD is a beautiful model & they have money, she'll have it easy when it comes to shiddichim. It's not how it works. |
IDK. I came here for advice. I can only go by my experience. I didn't go to seminary, and I didn't have money, and I was a desirable mate. I was proposed to a number of times and never had a guy not want to go out more times. I was the one who ended things. I did have it easy.
DD is more personable, prettier, more put together than I was at the same age.
I have a hard time seeing that being engaging and more beautiful than other girls doesn't give youI an advantage. Having money wasn't something DH and I looked for in each other, but often when I hear about a shidduch, the money on one side or the other is mentioned early on like it is a trophy.
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amother
Goldenrod
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Wed, May 01 2019, 8:01 pm
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OP, you MUST get it out of your mind that just because DD is pretty and has money, she'll have an easy time with shiddichim. Or else, you're setting yourself up for heartache and disappointment. I hope you didn't tell your daughter how you feel about her & please teach her that middos tovos & being a mentch is what counts. Not her prettiness or money.
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amother
OP
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Wed, May 01 2019, 8:05 pm
| chestnut wrote: | You can be as bothered by this as you'd like, but what I said is the truth in the yeshivishe circles. OP asked how it'll affect shidduchim. There's no issue of money for the family. The very first question every single shadchan and boy's mother will have is why she didn't go to seminary. Starting college earlier doesn't really help cause nowadays pretty much each seminary gives college credits.
Are there girls who don't go to seminary and get married right away to great boys? Sure. Are there women who went to all the right places and are still single on their 40s? Absolutely. However, we are talking in general.
No, it's not the same as going only to this yeshiva or that seminary. I was clear that Israel isn't a must. And it's most definitely not the same as dressing kids in matching designer clothing.
I think all these "I wouldn't care one bit" answers are actually doing the OP a disservice cause, for all we know (and most probably), her community is NOT the same as Imamother posters. The same thing is with all those "would you be ok with your son/daughter marrying a ger/geyores/BT?" Imamother posters and OP communities are often completely different |
So if DD couldn't get college credits for the college she wants to attend, would that be a good enough reason not to go so it wouldn't effect her chances?
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amother
OP
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Wed, May 01 2019, 8:27 pm
| amother [ Goldenrod ] wrote: | | OP, you MUST get it out of your mind that just because DD is pretty and has money, she'll have an easy time with shiddichim. Or else, your setting yourself up for heartache and disappointment. I hope you didn't tell your daughter how you feel about her & please teach her that middos tovos & being a mentch is what counts. Not her prettiness or money. |
So many times amothers made predictions to me that were wrong. So I will take your prediction with a grain of salt and say that I don't think I am setting myself up for disappointment.
My common sense and experience with other girls and my own experience tells me shidduchim isn't a level playing field. My daughter has beautiful middos, but then so does all the other girls around her. Good middos in a girl is expected.
Since I am not pushing my kids to get married young, none of this is discussed with them. DD has more worth than if she could get married.
DH made one comment to me that seminary is necessary for a shidduch. I am trying to figure out if it is in fact necessary.
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amother
Jetblack
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Wed, May 01 2019, 9:08 pm
| chestnut wrote: | | So, which one is it - seminary wasn't an option or she's going to Israel with friends? |
Sorry, I edited my post for clarity.
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amother
Denim
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Wed, May 01 2019, 9:17 pm
Plenty of girls get married without going to seminary.
The question is why she doesn't want to go. Is she...
Afraid of being away from home?
Not interested in advancing her learning?
Anxious to start earning money?
The answers will affect who she will date and who is interested in her.
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Ruchel
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Thu, May 02 2019, 2:58 am
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you serious? you think the right guy will reject her for a school? and you think all guys have a remote interest
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amother
OP
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Thu, May 02 2019, 4:11 am
| Ruchel wrote: | | you serious? you think the right guy will reject her for a school? and you think all guys have a remote interest |
I don't think the guy would reject her. I am worried his mom or the shadchan who are in the initial gatekeepers would reject for no seminary. Every single one of her peers are going.
I was talking to a friend this week who is a school administrator, and an excited mom saw us. She came over interrupting us asking my friend for a graduation list of the girls a couple years back. She has a son to marry off and wanted my friend to give her the list as she only wanted that graduates of that school for her son.
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amother
OP
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Thu, May 02 2019, 4:29 am
| amother [ Denim ] wrote: | Plenty of girls get married without going to seminary.
The question is why she doesn't want to go. Is she...
Afraid of being away from home?
Not interested in advancing her learning?
Anxious to start earning money?
The answers will affect who she will date and who is interested in her. |
She's anxious to be away from home because we have a sick family member, and she is afraid I will be lonely without her. Before someone else starts, DD and I have a normal relationship.
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amother
Lime
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Thu, May 02 2019, 4:33 am
| SuperWify wrote: | Lol. Curvy??
Really.
Is her resume going to have her cup size written?
Op is this question legit? |
I don't understand why some feel that it doesn't work in her favor that she's "curvy". Many guys like it. Period.
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amother
Amber
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Thu, May 02 2019, 4:37 am
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | | Of course it will. We will do a swimsuit shot for her profile picture, and I will attach my brokerage statement as an addendum. |
OP, if DD has inherited your sense of humor, she doesn’t need Sem for a Shidduch!
Seriously, if she doesn’t want to go, let her be. Her true Zivug won’t care.
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allthingsblue
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Thu, May 02 2019, 4:41 am
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Op, here is a good guide for life. Make decisions that will positively affect your spiritual, emotional and physical health. Your daughter should do the same. After you do your part by making decisions that are good for you, the rest is 100% in Hashem's hands. Let yourself live, breathe and relax, knowing you are in good hands.
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amother
Lime
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Thu, May 02 2019, 4:43 am
| amother [ Goldenrod ] wrote: | | OP, you MUST get it out of your mind that just because DD is pretty and has money, she'll have an easy time with shiddichim. Or else, your setting yourself up for heartache and disappointment. I hope you didn't tell your daughter how you feel about her & please teach her that middos tovos & being a mentch is what counts. Not her prettiness or money. |
Being beautiful and having money most definitely works to a girls advantage.
Now before you tell me the story about your cousin, who is very wealthy and the prettiest girl in her class, and didn't find a shidduch until she was 31, I agree the money and looks don't guarantee anything. However, it certainly helps. Studying for a test doesn't guarantee anything either. It only helps.
Middos tovos doesn't either guarantee anything. It also only helps. Which is more important to a 22 year old guy? Average middos and beautiful or excellent middos and very beautiful? I'd say it's very close.
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amother
Brown
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Thu, May 02 2019, 4:44 am
| chestnut wrote: | You can be as bothered by this as you'd like, but what I said is the truth in the yeshivishe circles. OP asked how it'll affect shidduchim. There's no issue of money for the family. The very first question every single shadchan and boy's mother will have is why she didn't go to seminary. Starting college earlier doesn't really help cause nowadays pretty much each seminary gives college credits.
Are there girls who don't go to seminary and get married right away to great boys? Sure. Are there women who went to all the right places and are still single on their 40s? Absolutely. However, we are talking in general.
No, it's not the same as going only to this yeshiva or that seminary. I was clear that Israel isn't a must. And it's most definitely not the same as dressing kids in matching designer clothing.
I think all these "I wouldn't care one bit" answers are actually doing the OP a disservice cause, for all we know (and most probably), her community is NOT the same as Imamother posters. The same thing is with all those "would you be ok with your son/daughter marrying a ger/geyores/BT?" Imamother posters and OP communities are often completely different |
If you didnt read my first post, I actually bit the bullet and didnt go to seminary, had no money, got engaged to a wonderful learning boy, was one of the first in my grade to get married.
1)yes shadchnim asked "oh you didnt go to sem? Why not" I told them I didnt feel it was necessary for me and that I had a pretty good sense of self and strong hashkafa, and just wantqed to start real life. They were all perfectly satisfied with that and went on to redt me decent shidduchim.
2) no, I am answering from the community OP is referring to. Im from monsey NY, yeshivish/litvish circles
3) I actually have experience with this, unlike everyone else who is just assuming what hell it will be like. I DID NOT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH SHIDDUCHIM BH. People saw a nice, well rounded young woman with her head on straight and that was that. You say "in general". I believe "in general" people dont disqualify a girl because she didnt go to sem. Sure you have a few idiots who check 3 generations back and ask all sorts of other crazy questions. So maybe theyre the minority who also need seminary on the list. But in general, I think people are more normal than that
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amother
Honeydew
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Thu, May 02 2019, 4:46 am
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | | She's anxious to be away from home because we have a sick family member, and she is afraid I will be lonely without her. Before someone else starts, DD and I have a normal relationship. |
If she wants to go to seminary but not leave home, there are local options, especially if you live in the NY/NJ area, Baltimore, Cleveland, etc. The local seminaries usually have a very different schedule for admissions, so she could still apply, and in many you can do some college at the same time. If she wants a semi-away experience, there are some where she can board and come home for long weekends- think classes from Monday to Thursday.
This is not to say she has to go to seminary, but it sounds like seminary itself isn't the issue.
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