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-> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
FranticFrummie
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 Thu, May 02 2019, 7:48 am
| pesek zman wrote: | | So many sheep!!! I am raising my daughter to be an independent thinker and to have the confidence to make her own choices. I didn’t go to seminary: it didn’t interest me. Never looked back. And I got married. Everyone goes? So what? I’ve never done what everyone does. I can’t believe ‘because everyone does’ is really a consideration! How boring! |
THIS.
What every happened to emotional compatibility, shared life goals, or even *gasp* that they just plain enjoy each other's company?
If those factors aren't there, all the seminaries and curves and money are NOT going to make for a happy marriage.
I feel like the guys are all in a big supermarket, doing the shopping. The girls are a product on the shelves, and if the package isn't attracting and the ingredients aren't absolutely perfect, then the boys will go shopping elsewhere, leaving the girls to sit on the shelf and wait.
This system is messed up and dehumanizing!
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amother
OP
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Thu, May 02 2019, 7:51 am
| amother [ Amber ] wrote: | OP, if DD has inherited your sense of humor, she doesn’t need Sem for a Shidduch!
Seriously, if she doesn’t want to go, let her be. Her true Zivug won’t care. |
Thank you.
That's just it. She doesn't have strong feelings one way or another. I am not thinking shidduch yet, but I don't want to hurt her for the future.
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JoyInTheMorning
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Thu, May 02 2019, 7:54 am
Where is Fox to chime in and explain why seminary is not necessary? 
I personally want my kids to continue learning. But I wouldn't force them to go away to learn (yeshiva/seminary) if they didn't want it. Similarly, I'm encouraging applications to colleges that have many Torah learning opportunities on campus. But you can't force any kid to learn either.
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amother
OP
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Thu, May 02 2019, 7:54 am
| amother [ Honeydew ] wrote: | If she wants to go to seminary but not leave home, there are local options, especially if you live in the NY/NJ area, Baltimore, Cleveland, etc. The local seminaries usually have a very different schedule for admissions, so she could still apply, and in many you can do some college at the same time. If she wants a semi-away experience, there are some where she can board and come home for long weekends- think classes from Monday to Thursday.
This is not to say she has to go to seminary, but it sounds like seminary itself isn't the issue. |
Her principal said it is too late for those options. How do I find out about them?
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watergirl
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Thu, May 02 2019, 7:57 am
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | | Her principal said it is too late for those options. How do I find out about them? |
The principal is wrong. Look into Baltimore Maalot (I think they dont have the first year seminary program as of now, they have it sometimes). Look into Chicago TI. Cleveland Yavneh. I promise, its not too late.
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amother
OP
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Thu, May 02 2019, 7:59 am
| JoyInTheMorning wrote: | Where is Fox to chime in and explain why seminary is not necessary?
I personally want my kids to continue learning. But I wouldn't force them to go away to learn (yeshiva/seminary) if they didn't want it. Similarly, I'm encouraging applications to colleges that have many Torah learning opportunities on campus. But you can't force any kid to learn either. |
I know. I had an earlier thread on seminary, and that was Fox's response. 
I don't force the kids at this age. DD is looking to me for guidance to make the decision. But the decision is hers.
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amother
OP
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Thu, May 02 2019, 8:01 am
| watergirl wrote: | | The principal is wrong. Look into Baltimore Maalot (I think they dont have the first year seminary program as of now, they have it sometimes). Look into Chicago TI. Cleveland Yavneh. I promise, its not too late. |
Thank you. Do you know if these are accredited?
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amother
OP
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Thu, May 02 2019, 8:03 am
| FranticFrummie wrote: | THIS.
What every happened to emotional compatibility, shared life goals, or even *gasp* that they just plain enjoy each other's company?
If those factors aren't there, all the seminaries and curves and money are NOT going to make for a happy marriage.
I feel like the guys are all in a big supermarket, doing the shopping. The girls are a product on the shelves, and if the package isn't attracting and the ingredients aren't absolutely perfect, then the boys will go shopping elsewhere, leaving the girls to sit on the shelf and wait.
This system is messed up and dehumanizing! |
FF I agree. But that's a subject for a spin-off please. Right now I am anxious about DD's situation. It is getting late, and it's not fair to the seminary that accepted her to keep them dangling.
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amother
OP
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Thu, May 02 2019, 8:07 am
| amother [ Brown ] wrote: | If you didnt read my first post, I actually bit the bullet and didnt go to seminary, had no money, got engaged to a wonderful learning boy, was one of the first in my grade to get married.
1)yes shadchnim asked "oh you didnt go to sem? Why not" I told them I didnt feel it was necessary for me and that I had a pretty good sense of self and strong hashkafa, and just wantqed to start real life. They were all perfectly satisfied with that and went on to redt me decent shidduchim.
2) no, I am answering from the community OP is referring to. Im from monsey NY, yeshivish/litvish circles
3) I actually have experience with this, unlike everyone else who is just assuming what hell it will be like. I DID NOT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH SHIDDUCHIM BH. People saw a nice, well rounded young woman with her head on straight and that was that. You say "in general". I believe "in general" people dont disqualify a girl because she didnt go to sem. Sure you have a few idiots who check 3 generations back and ask all sorts of other crazy questions. So maybe theyre the minority who also need seminary on the list. But in general, I think people are more normal than that |
Would you mind telling me how long you have been out of HS please?
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amother
Honeydew
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Thu, May 02 2019, 8:13 am
Definitely not too late. There is a seminary in Lakewood that runs a lot like an Israel seminary, dorm and all, or you can live at home or board- Bnos Chaim. Rebbetzin Aviva Feiner runs an amazing seminary in Far Rockaway, also has a dorm or girls board or live at home in Queens or Brooklyn, with a half or full day option, and many girls work and/or do college classes too. I know people who got into both the summer once. It's common for this type of thing to happen because of changed of plans. Yavneh in Cleveland will let you know if their dorm is full yet- for most of these schools, it's the dorm that will be an issue with deadlines and if you don't need it, no problem. And in Brooklyn, there are many day and half day seminaries.
IME, most high school principals know very little about American seminaries. They are often happy to be educated when their parents find out. Make the calls and let the principal know what's happening- they should be happy to help.
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amother
Honeydew
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Thu, May 02 2019, 8:15 am
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Re accreditation, where is your dd looking to go to college? Many of the American seminaries will give Pass/Fail credits that you can transfer in (you get real grades, but they transfer pass fail.) Some may be associated with specific colleges. You can definitely ask.
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amother
Brown
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Thu, May 02 2019, 8:24 am
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | | Would you mind telling me how long you have been out of HS please? |
I graduated 12 years ago in 2007. In shidduchim 10-11 years ago
OP im sure some people will dismiss your daughter if she didnt go to sem...but should you make a decision like this based on pleasing those people? I find there are enough people with their heads on straight who really dont care.
Maybe discuss this with a Rav?
I cant take the responsibility for encouraging you not to send her....but I really do think this whole thing is overblown.
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watergirl
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Thu, May 02 2019, 8:24 am
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | | Thank you. Do you know if these are accredited? |
Yes. All are. TI in chicago is part of Touro now. The others are as well.
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watergirl
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Thu, May 02 2019, 8:34 am
| FranticFrummie wrote: | THIS.
What every happened to emotional compatibility, shared life goals, or even *gasp* that they just plain enjoy each other's company?
If those factors aren't there, all the seminaries and curves and money are NOT going to make for a happy marriage.
I feel like the guys are all in a big supermarket, doing the shopping. The girls are a product on the shelves, and if the package isn't attracting and the ingredients aren't absolutely perfect, then the boys will go shopping elsewhere, leaving the girls to sit on the shelf and wait.
This system is messed up and dehumanizing! |
I agree with you. The system is messed up and one can combat it by not subscribing to that system!
OP, if you are part of this "system", then I guess seminary will matter. However, its true what others have said - this is a matter of emunah, not seminary. HKBH set up a match for everyone and I promise, He does not change the match if someone does not go to seminary! Think about what that is saying! Its almost avodah zarah to claim that we know better than He does and to make claims that are against the essence of Torah. Its like people think they know better than Gd what is best for their kids. What if your child's bshert lives (HORRORS) "out of town"? Or has working parents who are hardly scraping by and cant or wont support? COME ON people! Think about what you are saying! This, in my opinion, is why we have such a high divorce rate in our community. People think they know more than HKBH and try to outsmart Him in shidduchim. (sorry for that rant).
Also, do you really want your daughter to marry someone who cares about seminary to the point that he wont look past that on a resume? Or marry into a family with a mother in law like that? A young woman is a whole package and if you must even WRITE the resume (ugh I hate that!), for my daughters I know that I would never ever want that type of family.
And to what FF said - you said it perfectly. These boys and their mothers seem to have a shopping list and look up and down the isles for their shidduch. Well, we are not at Target and not on sale. I dont want that system for my kids, boys and girls alike.
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dancingqueen
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Thu, May 02 2019, 8:36 am
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | Honestly before this thead I didn't know that curvy meant only chest size on imamother. I meant she has a nice figure.
DD doesn't have a good reason not to go.
I don't understand the necessity of seminary anyway. She has a superb yeshivah education and learned whatever she needs to run a kosher house at home. |
We all know what curvy means, I was just a little taken aback hearing a mother describe her dd that way, as were other posters apparently.
But if she doesn’t want to go because she’s worried about your family and you being lonely you should absolutely encourage her to go. Nothing to do with shidduchim though it probably does help. But because I don’t know anyone who regrets going to Israel for the year. It’s a great experience.
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amother
Vermilion
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Thu, May 02 2019, 8:41 am
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When someone says curvy, to me it refers to a plump round behind. I guess it was important for OP to let us know her daughter has a big @ss and guys will want her for that in lieu of seminary.
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livinginflatbus
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Thu, May 02 2019, 8:45 am
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I feel like saying she’s curvy is cheapening her for her body . Yes , guys do like it , but no , it’s far from the only thing that matters . And the right guy will take her seminary or no seminary .
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amother
OP
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Thu, May 02 2019, 8:46 am
| dancingqueen wrote: | We all know what curvy means, I was just a little taken aback hearing a mother describe her dd that way, as were other posters apparently.
But if she doesn’t want to go because she’s worried about your family and you being lonely you should absolutely encourage her to go. Nothing to do with shidduchim though it probably does help. But because I don’t know anyone who regrets going to Israel for the year. It’s a great experience. |
If you knew what I meant, then why did you distort what I said?
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PinkFridge
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Thu, May 02 2019, 8:47 am
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | IDK. I came here for advice. I can only go by my experience. I didn't go to seminary, and I didn't have money, and I was a desirable mate. I was proposed to a number of times and never had a guy not want to go out more times. I was the one who ended things. I did have it easy.
DD is more personable, prettier, more put together than I was at the same age.
I have a hard time seeing that being engaging and more beautiful than other girls doesn't give youI an advantage. Having money wasn't something DH and I looked for in each other, but often when I hear about a shidduch, the money on one side or the other is mentioned early on like it is a trophy. |
We lived in different times.
And yes, money and looks will grease the wheels. But what a blessing when you know your children were married for who they are. (Of course, everyone should put his or her best foot and face forward, I hope ykiwm though.)
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amother
OP
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Thu, May 02 2019, 8:54 am
| amother [ Vermilion ] wrote: | | When someone says curvy, to me it refers to a plump round behind. I guess it was important for OP to let us know her daughter has a big @ss and guys will want her for that in lieu of seminary. |
We can only go by our own experiences. My mother criticized my body by saying I looked like a pencil, a french fry, or olive oil. I simply mean she is slim and well proportioned. I probably should have said she has a nice figure. But then you would come back and say that I mean she has a big a$$ anyway.
I have addressed this numerous times already on this thread.
Whether anyone wants to believe this or not, men like attractive women better than unattractive ones given everything else is equal. The beautiful girls seem to be the most desirable in ALL circles.
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