Is seminary necessary for a Shidduch?

singleagain

Thu, May 02 2019, 8:58 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

We can only go by our own experiences. My mother criticized my body by saying I looked like a pencil, a french fry, or olive oil. I simply mean she is slim and well proportioned. I probably should have said she has a nice figure. But then you would come back and say that I mean she has a big a$$ anyway.

I have addressed this numerous times already on this thread.

Whether anyone wants to believe this or not, men like attractive women better than unattractive ones given everything else is equal. The beautiful girls seem to be the most desirable in ALL circles.

I agree with this. Beauty is prized.

Now to everyone taking about beauty:

Just keep in mind that beauty is also highly subjective. And while yes.. There is a general sense of objective beauty, you never know what trait you might not find objectively beautiful, someone else with find subjectively beautiful.

amother

Thu, May 02 2019, 9:02 am

livinginflatbus wrote:

I feel like saying she’s curvy is cheapening her for her body . Yes , guys do like it , but no , it’s far from the only thing that matters . And the right guy will take her seminary or no seminary .

Then what is with the trend asking for size 0s? How many threads or RL situations have there been where a heavier girl is left waiting, and the slimmer girls are picked first? Then you must mean everyone is cheapening women when they consider looks.

Does it not cheapen women when guys ask for support ? Aren't they buying a monthly check?

You are in la la land if you don't think money and looks are considered.

amother

Thu, May 02 2019, 9:06 am

watergirl wrote:

I agree with you. The system is messed up and one can combat it by not subscribing to that system!

OP, if you are part of this "system", then I guess seminary will matter. However, its true what others have said - this is a matter of emunah, not seminary. HKBH set up a match for everyone and I promise, He does not change the match if someone does not go to seminary! Think about what that is saying! Its almost avodah zarah to claim that we know better than He does and to make claims that are against the essence of Torah. Its like people think they know better than Gd what is best for their kids. What if your child's bshert lives (HORRORS) "out of town"? Or has working parents who are hardly scraping by and cant or wont support? COME ON people! Think about what you are saying! This, in my opinion, is why we have such a high divorce rate in our community. People think they know more than HKBH and try to outsmart Him in shidduchim. (sorry for that rant).

Also, do you really want your daughter to marry someone who cares about seminary to the point that he wont look past that on a resume? Or marry into a family with a mother in law like that? A young woman is a whole package and if you must even WRITE the resume (ugh I hate that!), for my daughters I know that I would never ever want that type of family.

And to what FF said - you said it perfectly. These boys and their mothers seem to have a shopping list and look up and down the isles for their shidduch. Well, we are not at Target and not on sale. I dont want that system for my kids, boys and girls alike.

Resumes are prescreened before they get to the guy.

PinkFridge

Thu, May 02 2019, 9:15 am

amother [ Honeydew ] wrote:

Definitely not too late. There is a seminary in Lakewood that runs a lot like an Israel seminary, dorm and all, or you can live at home or board- Bnos Chaim. Rebbetzin Aviva Feiner runs an amazing seminary in Far Rockaway, also has a dorm or girls board or live at home in Queens or Brooklyn, with a half or full day option, and many girls work and/or do college classes too. I know people who got into both the summer once. It's common for this type of thing to happen because of changed of plans. Yavneh in Cleveland will let you know if their dorm is full yet- for most of these schools, it's the dorm that will be an issue with deadlines and if you don't need it, no problem. And in Brooklyn, there are many day and half day seminaries.

IME, most high school principals know very little about American seminaries. They are often happy to be educated when their parents find out. Make the calls and let the principal know what's happening- they should be happy to help.

Don't forget BY Intensive and Rebbetzin Assaf.

amother

Peach

Thu, May 02 2019, 9:23 am

amother [ Goldenrod ] wrote:

Amother fuschia, yes, money talks. But it's still not a guarantee that shidduchim will go easy. Money isn't everything.
OP seems to think that because her DD is a beautiful model & they have money, she'll have it easy when it comes to shiddichim. It's not how it works.

Yes. And who says that at the end of the day, the marriage which was based on things like money, will be happy and successful?

Seminary is only important if you are narrow minded and want your daughter to join a narrow minded family. After all, a girl who has not been to seminary, and had the money to go, must obviously be lacking in middos, doesn't like learning or doesn't value learning in her husband. Rolling Eyes

amother

Peach

Thu, May 02 2019, 9:31 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

So many times amothers made predictions to me that were wrong. So I will take your prediction with a grain of salt and say that I don't think I am setting myself up for disappointment.

My common sense and experience with other girls and my own experience tells me shidduchim isn't a level playing field. My daughter has beautiful middos, but then so does all the other girls around her. Good middos in a girl is expected.

Since I am not pushing my kids to get married young, none of this is discussed with them. DD has more worth than if she could get married.

DH made one comment to me that seminary is necessary for a shidduch. I am trying to figure out if it is in fact necessary.

I don't know where you live, but many girls may appear to have good middos, but when you get to know them better, they do not. They are self centered, selfish, vain, etc.. I cannot believe that "all the other girls around her" have good middos. Personally, I find good middos hard to find.

Chayalle

Thu, May 02 2019, 9:47 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Thank you. Do you know if these are accredited?

Bnos Chaim Seminary in Lakewood is fully accredited. DD got 36 credits for her year there. I don't know whether they will consider accepting another student at this point - I heard they had a massive amount of applicants this year - and I probably shouldn't say this, but my older DD decided to go there in June of her senior year (B"H for her high school mechaneches and the strings she was able to pull.)

The principal of your daughter's school should be ready to put herself out there for a student and push for her if she wants to attend a local (US) seminary. It's a very viable option for many girls, giving them a solid foundation without having to go across the ocean for 10 months.

As to the cost, I just want to blow the myth that some seem to perpetuate on this thread that everyone who goes to seminary in Israel blows about 25K. I know many people who have sent their daughters on substantial scholarships. I will go so far as to say I will I"YH be paying more for my daughter's seminary costs right here in Lakewood with no dorming, than her friend will in a seminary in Israel.

In terms of my opinion on the necessity for seminary for a shidduch - and I'm saying this as someone in yeshivish circles - no, it is not absolutely necessary. OP, Hashem doesn't need your DD to do things that she does not care about in order to send her the right shidduch. The right person will be open to hearing about her wonderful middos, great personality, nice family, (and even beautiful appearance) etc...without seminary. DD has several friends - wonderful girls who did not opt to go to seminary for various reasons. It's not unheard of, not totally left field. Yes, there are some for whom seminary is a deal-breaker, but I would suggest that those boys are probably not for your DD anyway. Do you really want someone for your DD who must have something that was not so important to her?

Chayalle

Thu, May 02 2019, 9:51 am

PinkFridge wrote:

OMgoodness, this is for next year?
Israel is probably moot.
But there are wonderful American and chutz la'aretz options. I'd be surprised if there isn't something still available.

I know people who decided to go to Israel during the summer. There are always seminaries that aren't full, and for the right applicant with the right type of connections it can be arranged. But yes, it's not typical.

As to a local US seminary, I don't know why her high school wouldn't put themselves out for a student and work on this for her. Many students take more time to decide where they will go, especially if it's local choices they are making.

amother

Firebrick

Thu, May 02 2019, 11:38 am

Chayalle wrote:

YES! My dd's seminary experience this year in Israel cost iirc $17000 plus airfare. (its one of the cheaper ones) MASA gave us about $7000. (we don't live in the USA and they give different amounts to different countries and situations) Next year she wants to do shana bet in a usa part time seminary and the cost WITHOUT dorm and food will be close to $8000. Honestly I don't think she needs shana bet but she really loves the learning bh and I don't want to squash that. I know once she gets married, starts working etc there won't be much opportunity to learn so having a good basis in that is important to me.

To the OP. I agree seminary is not 100% necessary for shidduchim. However I don't think it can be an amazing, uplifting exerience where you can make lifelong friendships and do some serious learning which can be a really good tool for the future. Being a frum wife and mother can be hard. Knowing why you are doing all this stuff, having the tools and knowledge on how to pick up a sefer, is invaluable. Since you say money is not an issue I think it is a shame to miss out on that. I myself went to a not great us based seminary with no proper dorm and I really feel I missed out on the social aspect, although the learning was pretty good.

PinkFridge

Thu, May 02 2019, 11:57 am

Chayalle wrote:

Re first paragraph, I was thinking I came off too panicky. Thanks for pointing it out.
Re the second: yeah, our principals are really amazing with helping the girls out too.

amother

Lime

Thu, May 02 2019, 11:58 am

amother [ Wheat ] wrote:

There is only 1 answer to this question. Period. Anyone who asks this question is lacking basic Emunah. Everyone is given a zivug 40 days before their conception. There is a G-d in the world. If you believe that seminary or no seminary will affect what G-d is in control of, you’re showing a total lack of Emunah

This is so entirely illogical and is lacking basic common sense. Yes, hashem runs the world. However, he runs it according to a certain teva that he put in place. A wealthy, beautiful girl from a great family will have more opportunities than a heavy girl with emotional problem who comes from a divorced home. According to you, hashem runs the world. They both have an equal chance of getting married. Wake up. That's not how hashem runs the world.