S/o of s/o. We backpaid DH tuition

amother

Sun, May 05 2019, 5:51 pm

I want to clarify a few things : my inlaws arent bad people. They arent manipulative. They dont lie, steal or cheat.
I dont even know if DH told them about the tuition. They wouldnt have been able to pay it so he might have thought what would be the point. DH is the only one in his family who went thru this. My SILs above him didnt have this issue. They for sure didnt know at the time the type of headache they would cause for us down the road. Also my DH obv had a lot more years in yeshiva post hs. My SILs went straight to sem (paid in full by grandparent's - or they wont let u in) and then straight to college.
If my inlaws knew the grief they caused us they would feel absolutely miserable over it.
In general their lax attitude toward finaces is the way they are in their lives. They are so easy and nice to be around . My DH had an adjustment getting used to my parents more rigid ways...

amother

Blush

Sun, May 05 2019, 6:02 pm

OP. I have tremendous respect for you.

To you and all you posters in similar situations, I have this question:
My marriage is falling apart and I think its mostly because of the differences in our approach to finances and our inability to communicate about it.
He is just forceful about not wanting a budget or limitations and life is about enjoying and anyway his spending is normal. And not over the top.
I am from the European idea: No debts/ savings is essential etc.
From all you are presenting, so many of you seem to have solid marriages despite this big sore point.
Maybe its the communication issue thats really the crux of the issue. I guess as I am writing this its becoming clearer.
As Ive said many times. We can have differences - a marriage can survive that. - but we need to understand each others perspective.

I’ll share anyway. Because maybe some of you will provide more insight.

Op. Hope its OK. And again wow! For your attitude!!

Edited for typos and readability

amother

Pearl

Sun, May 05 2019, 6:22 pm

amother [ Blush ] wrote:

OP. I have tremendous respect for you.

To you and all you posters in similar situations I have this question:
My marriage is falling apart and I think its mostly because of the differences in out approach to finances and our inability to communicate about it.
He is just forceful about not wanting a budget or limitations and life is about enjoying and anyway his spending is normal. And not over the top.
I’m from the European idea. No debts/ savings is essential etc.
From all you are presenting so many of you seem to have solid marriages despite this big sore point.
Maybe its the communication issue thats really the crux of the issue. I guess as I am writing this its becoming clearer.
As Ive said many times. We can have differences - a marriage can survive that. - but we need to understand each others perspective.

I’ll share anyway. Bc maybe some of you will provide more insight.

Op. Hope its OK. ANd again wow! For your attitude!!

I have definitely learnt to take a step back and realize it’s not worth letting this issue monopolies my marriage. I would (myself forsure and if he wanted to go together) go for therapy so when I communicate about things that are important it doesn’t come from a loaded place full of resentment over past differences.

amother

Sun, May 05 2019, 6:40 pm

amother [ Blush ] wrote:

Thank you for all the kind words. And wow im so sorry for what you are going through. DH has a chip on shoulder and a major drive for success because hes trying to undo his upbringing. I cant say I relate to everthing you wrote but pls pls dont break up a marriage over financial issues. You need to figure out a way to speak where neither of you are attacking the other. Maybe it's worth reaching out to a mentor ..

amother

Fuchsia

Sun, May 05 2019, 7:44 pm

Squishy wrote:

It's not a crime to make a middle class income. It's obnoxious to make comments to about other people living within their means.

Or is also wrong to allow OP's DH to continue learning and obligating him to pay the Bill's. He should have been told after HS that HE is incurring debt.

I have no idea how I made any comments about people living within their means. And the parents owe the tuition, not OP's DH. But he needs to pay it to get his credits or diploma.

What am I missing?

amother

Fuchsia

Sun, May 05 2019, 7:53 pm

amother [ Green ] wrote:

Ok, you have a different situation from ops inlaws. If her inlaws had money for expensive weddings, they should've used the money TO PAY BACK TUITION OWED AND MAKE TAKANA WEDDINGS INSTEAD!!! Its a crime not to pay back tuition owed because on the contract that everyone signs, you are signing that you will pay.
If you have no money for basics, then yes, pay for those basics before tuition but ops inlaws was paying for extravagances while ignoring tuition bills. That's a crime, dishonest!!! And, its mandatory to pay tuition but not mandatory to have a fancy wedding(you can make a cheaper one).

Your situation sounds very different from ops inlaws.

Not as different as you think. True, we made takanah weddings for our children and spend the minimum, but even the minimum is a lot more than a minyon and a backyard wedding, which would be truly basic. We own a nice home in a nice neighborhood. We get help in other ways. Still doesn't mean that we have the money to pay all the tuition.

It also sounds like her Dh's parents were not paying for all these extravagances but the grandparents were. As soon as that well dried up, there is now no money for basics. And their mindset remained that they are rich - it's very hard to change a mindset when you are older. It sounds as if they DID have the money for the older kids and it's just recently that they can't pay.

Also keep in mind that you pay many more years for boys tuition. My sons start going out in shidduchim at 23, that means we pay for five years of school that is not paid for a girl. And those are not cheap years either - you are paying for tuition as well as dorm. It's nice that you feel that I am obligated because I signed a contract - first of all, I didn't, but second of all, if I can't pay I can't pay. I can't manufacture money if it's not there.

Another thing - girls have an opportunity to make money before they get married. Boys don't. If you want to blame someone, blame the system, not the parents.

amother

Papaya

Sun, May 05 2019, 8:06 pm

My husband was raised with both parents in chinuch but wealthy grandparents on each side. He also grew up thinking he was poor (it effected him negatively much more than it effected me)
His grandparents were war survivors and spoiled his parents by buying them a nice house in the expensive neighborhood (with plently of Joneses to keep up with) in the the city my inlaws live it. They would also come to the rescue anytime my inlaws couldnt pay their bills. This gave my inlaws the impression that they can live out of their means and itll always be "taken care of"
My husband has very fond childhood memories of lavish vacations, toys every erev shabbos etc. My sisters in law all went to seminary in EY and all got married in expensive high end venues. (I still remember they made a comment about my parents making me a "simple" wedding as if it was below their standards

Am I the only one confused? How is it that your husband grew up thinking he was poor and it effected him greatly.....while his grandparents bought them a nice houe in the expensive neighborhood, taking lavish vacations, plenty of toys, and made expensive weddings?
Also, it doesn't seem like the grandparents were tight with money. Why didn't they just help out with tuition? I'm confused.

amother

Sun, May 05 2019, 8:07 pm

Amother fuschia im so sorry your situation must be extremely stressful. Im curious if you were to ask daas Torah a question of weather sending your child into a marriage with tuition debts is fair. To me the answer is obviously of course not. If you make a payment plan to pay it off over the next 10 years and your sons wife never has to know about it then of course its a whole different question.

amother

Ginger

Sun, May 05 2019, 8:11 pm

I think this tuition was from after the grandparents died but I could be mistaken.
I grew up with wealthy grandparents but didn't think of my mother as wealthy. It definitely affected me. Grandparents aren't parents, they don't give you the same security. My relationship was also strained with my grandfather. They did pay my tuition. That wasn't really a question.

amother

Fuchsia

Sun, May 05 2019, 8:12 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I'm not sure what the question is. So should I tell my son not to get married?

If I make a 10 year payment plan (do you really think the school would agree? We asked, they dont), they wont give the diploma until we are fully paid up.

Obviously at the point that he will really need it we will have to borrow the money from somewhere else in order to pay it up. OP says she didn't ask her in laws for the money.

amother

Fuchsia

Sun, May 05 2019, 8:14 pm

L25 wrote:

fuschia- do you really believe that someone only has to pay for something if they "can" - do you have to pay for clothing at the store or only if you can? and who defines can? It sounds like a dangerous attitude to have. Please tell me I'm misunderstanding something.

I'm not sure what your question is. Should I have homeschooled all my children?

amother

Sun, May 05 2019, 8:16 pm

amother [ Papaya ] wrote:

Am I the only one confused? How is it that your husband grew up thinking he was poor and it effected him greatly.....while his grandparents bought them a nice houe in the expensive neighborhood, taking lavish vacations, plenty of toys, and made expensive weddings?
Also, it doesn't seem like the grandparents were tight with money. Why didn't they just help out with tuition? I'm confused.

I think the son of a rebbi and a morah knows he's not in the same boat as the boys around him who parents are doctors and lawyers. Especially because he lived amoung the elite. His grandparents were hungarian and image conscious and cared to contribute towards their children having a good image. By the time my husband was a teen and most grandparents were out of the picture, my husband felt he couldn't ask his parents for things like spending money and clothes and shoes. This was very hard on him because he had high standards. When we were dating my brother in law would food the bill for the dates Sad

Hope this clarifys things

amother

Sun, May 05 2019, 8:18 pm

amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:

No!! Send your son out to work! He has to know if he is accruing debt just by being where his is!!

amother

Fuchsia

Sun, May 05 2019, 8:19 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

No!! Send your son out to work! He has to know if he is accruing debt just by being where his is!!

Lol. I think this is the saddest post I have ever read on imamother.

I would like to add that it is only beis medrash that we owe tons to. So he won't get the college credits. So if he wants college credits he'll just have to do it himself. What's wrong with that?

amother

Forestgreen

Sun, May 05 2019, 8:22 pm

amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:

I'm not sure what your question is. Should I have homeschooled all my children?

At a certain point, you have more flexibility. Having an adult child living in a dorm, eating yeshiva food, is not the same as the limitations imposed by giving your non adult child a yeshiva education. There are many boys that age who earn money during bein hazmanim to offset costs, or work bein hasdarim. Yeshivas often are willing to do a work/ study arrangement with bochurim. If all else fails, they can live at home and learn in a local beis medrash without officially enrolling.

amother

Fuchsia

Sun, May 05 2019, 8:26 pm

amother [ Forestgreen ] wrote:

My son worked bein hazmanim. You can't compare the few thousands dollars he made to the amount a girl has when she gets married. Anyway, he used the money on stuff he wanted - takeout, expensive clothing - which everyone else seemed to magically get from their parents.

Work study arrangement? Which yeshivah is that? That's just living in a fantasy world. And you can't live at home and unofficially join a bais medrash. Again, not really happening.

amother

Blue

Sun, May 05 2019, 8:27 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I was toward the older end of a large family and my mother was extremely practical. I think a family vacation to her would have been the opposite of relaxing. I was probably angry at her at different times in my life (teen years) but nothing ever too significant that it sticks out in my mind. My mother was a very scheduled person so not having extras or takeout worked with her overall mentality...
She paid for school shabaton and my year book and things of that sort. She didnt pay for me to go upstate with my friends on midwinter. I actually went to camp 2 summers and my parents paid for it. I used my money for canteen..
When I was engaged I knew my parents werent going to make me an expensive wedding. It didnt even cross my mind to think they wouldnt marry me off as cheap as possible. To my mothers credit thou she really set me up nicely. I got beautiful furniture, kitchenwares, linens etc. I am still enjoying that now and hope to for many more years ...

Um, wait just a minute... your parents payed for all your school activities, your private school tuition, sleep away camp for 2 summers, (did they send you to seminary or pay any college tuition?)a respectable wedding, and set you up with beautiful furniture and housewares after marriage....and you thought you were poor???

Your parents "made" you pay for your personal outings with friends and canteen money at camp, and you were "poor" because of that?

To me that just sounds like a privileged upbringing with parents that taught you responsibility and didn't spoil you. That's very good role modeling, NOT poverty or poverty mindset.