S/o of s/o. We backpaid DH tuition

amother

Blue

Sun, May 05 2019, 5:28 pm

amother [ Forestgreen ] wrote:

At a certain point, you have more flexibility. Having an adult cyhild living in a dorm, eating yeshiva food, is not the same as the limitations imposed by giving your non adult child a yeshiva education. There are many boys that age who earn money during bein hazmanim to offset costs, or work bein hasdarim. Yeshivas often are willing to do a work/ study arrangement with bochurim. If all else fails, they can live at home and learn in a local beis medrash without officially enrolling.

What planet, ahem, city do you live in?

amother

Sun, May 05 2019, 5:31 pm

amother [ Papaya ] wrote:

Am I the only one confused? How is it that your husband grew up thinking he was poor and it effected him greatly.....while his grandparents bought them a nice houe in the expensive neighborhood, taking lavish vacations, plenty of toys, and made expensive weddings?
Also, it doesn't seem like the grandparents were tight with money. Why didn't they just help out with tuition? I'm confused.

His grandparents were hungarian and were interested mostly in funding things that were image related. The son of a rebbi and a morah knows that his parents arent wealthy especially if there is a lot of unhealthy money conversations happening at home. Because of the wealthy neighborhood DH was raised in he had a lot of "wants"
By the time he was in high school all but one grandparent were gone.. he knew his parents had debt and he felt like he couldn't ask for basics like clothes or shoes. This did a job on his confidence. In Israel he had to figure out how to earn spending money and his brother had to bail him out a few times. When he was in shidduchim his brother took care of his dating expenses...
Hope this clarifies things ...

amother

Babyblue

Sun, May 05 2019, 5:33 pm

I am so grateful to the OP for sharing this story because it is yet another true perspective on finances within our frum (yeshivish?) community which is so taboo and not talked-about.

Growing up my older brothers learned in a local bais medrash and lived at home; I am going to guess that they were not officially enrolled in the schools. Perhaps they didn't/won't get credits, but at least they won't have tuition debt, either. I always thought it was weird that they did that as opposed to learning in a more mainstream, larger place like BMG but now I appreciate the approach from a new angle. Maybe it just wasn't feasible from a financial perspective and this worked better.

Also, I appreciate this as a mother with multiple tuitions to pay now. I always wonder if being so frugal is worth it. We live simply to avoid debt, but I see so many larger families making more extravagant purchases, going on vacations, making more lavish simchas... it's hard to reconcile everything.

amother

Sun, May 05 2019, 5:37 pm

amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:

Lol. I think this is the saddest post I have ever read on imamother.

I would like to add that it is only beis medrash that we owe tons to. So he won't get the college credits. So if he wants college credits he'll just have to do it himself. What's wrong with that?

This has nothing to do with college credits. If your son is going to have to pick up the tab of him being in yeshiva during this time and he isnt being giving a choice then what your doing is certainly wrong...

amother

Forestgreen

Sun, May 05 2019, 5:38 pm

amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:

My son worked bein hazmanim. You can't compare the few thousands dollars he made to the amount a girl has when she gets married. Anyway, he used the money on stuff he wanted - takeout, expensive clothing - which everyone else seemed to magically get from their parents.

Work study arrangement? Which yeshivah is that? That's just living in a fantasy world. And you can't live at home and unofficially join a bais medrash. Again, not really happening.

My dh had a work study arrangement when his parents couldn't pay the tuition at his post HS yeshiva. And yes, you most certainly can live at home or with a relative and have chavrusas every seder in a local BM. I know multiple boys who have done that.

amother

Fuchsia

Sun, May 05 2019, 5:39 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I think the son of a rebbi and a morah knows he's not in the same boat as the boys around him who parents are doctors and lawyers. Especially because he lived amoung the elite. His grandparents were hungarian and image conscious and cared to contribute towards their children having a good image. By the time my husband was a teen and most grandparents were out of the picture, my husband felt he couldn't ask his parents for things like spending money and clothes and shoes. This was very hard on him because he had high standards. When we were dating my brother in law would food the bill for the dates Sad

Hope this clarifys things

So your in-laws are in chinuch. And they obviously don't have money for basics.

This is not a question for OP, but for everyone else :

If you send your children to a school that pays minimum wage to the Rebbeim and Morahs, how can you be horified that these same Rebbes and Morahs owe money to tuition? Where do you think they are supposed to get the money to pay for everything?

Hello, ladies, time to take a look in the mirror! And just stop with the judgmental attitude.

amother

Fuchsia

Sun, May 05 2019, 5:42 pm

amother [ Forestgreen ] wrote:

Which local Beis Medrash are you talking about? I am very familiar with ALL of them and I never heard of such an arrangement. I don't live in Brooklyn, but I know all the yeshivos there. So please give me names.

In any case, the boy wouldn't have credits so he's not really losing anything by going to the yeshivah the way I did it, would he?

amother

Periwinkle

Sun, May 05 2019, 5:42 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Im more worried about another fuschias attitude that her son is entitled to learn in a yeshiva, eat the food, sleep in the dorm all with no plans of paying.

Who is supposed to pay the Rebbis salary? And the rent of the building, and the food. Why does she feel that it’s okay if society picks up the tab?

amother

Fuchsia

Sun, May 05 2019, 5:44 pm

amother [ Periwinkle ] wrote:

Excuse me? I said I have no plans on paying? I pay tuition. I just didn't pay it in full. As I happen to know, like thousands of others.

And I will pay it iyh as soon as I have the money.

amother

Sun, May 05 2019, 5:45 pm

amother [ Blue ] wrote:

Um, wait just a minute... your parents payed for all your school activities, your private school tuition, sleep away camp for 2 summers, (did they send you to seminary or pay any college tuition?)a respectable wedding, and set you up with beautiful furniture and housewares after marriage....and you thought you were poor???

Your parents "made" you pay for your personal outings with friends and canteen money at camp, and you were "poor" because of that?

To me that just sounds like a privileged upbringing with parents that taught you responsibility and didn't spoil you. That's very good role modeling, NOT poverty or poverty mindset.

Yes I dont know how to explain it but I felt poor. I guess hearing " we cant afford that" all the time can do that to you. Like I said I look back and laugh. Of course I see now how well taken care of I was but when your a child your perspective is very limited and the only people you have to compare to are the people im your daled amos. Of course as an adult I know what real poverty is a my parents are rich in comparison...
No seminary, no college. Mother said "its not necessary "

amother

Forestgreen

Sun, May 05 2019, 5:46 pm

amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:

I know boys who have done this in chaim Berlin, Torah vodaas, and Torah temima. I'm sure it happens elsewhere but I don't have personal experience with it.

I'm confused about how it's allowed halachically to send a boy to live in the dorms and eat yeshiva food with no intention to pay.

ETA your previous posts were really not clear in terms of how much your balance was and the fact that you intend to pay eventually. I think people (myself included) were responding based on what seemed to be a different situation than you are now portraying.

amother

Fuchsia

Sun, May 05 2019, 5:48 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

He's not picking up the tab. Tuition is 10 to 15 thousand a year, I owe just a few thousand. Please, don't twist things around.

And my son maybe will ask me for the money, maybe he wont. But you know what? Honestly I think you are 100% wrong. I paid tons of money all through the years for food, clothing, camp, housing- boohoo that he has to cover a few thousand dollars tab. To be honest, I don't owe him anything, he should owe ME.

amother

Fuchsia

Sun, May 05 2019, 5:52 pm

amother [ Forestgreen ] wrote:

My son was in Torah Temimah. I'm definitely going to call them and tell them what you said. That he can learn in their beis medrash and not have to pay tuition. Who should I ask to speak to? I want the name.

I'm not sure where you saw that I didn't pay tuition. Like I said, tuition is 10 to 15 thousand a year. They know I don't have it. They knew this when we signed up. We are paying slowly and we owe only a few thousand dollars.

OP said that she owed a few thousand to each yeshivah. That's not full tuition or even anywhere near.

amother

Periwinkle

Sun, May 05 2019, 5:54 pm

amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:

And my son maybe will ask me for the money, maybe he wont. But you know what? Honestly I think you are 100% wrong. I paid tons of money all through the years for food, clothing, camp, housing- boohoo that he has to cover a few thousand dollars tab. To be honest, I don't owe him anything, he should owe ME.

Yikes. Someone should warn the potential Shidduch prospects...

amother

Fuchsia

Sun, May 05 2019, 5:54 pm

amother [ Forestgreen ] wrote:

To your ETA : OP said that she had to pay a few thousand to each yeshivah. Full tuition would have been at least 60,000 for four years post high school. So she wasnt paying the whole thing - just the balance. At least that's what I understood- correct me if I'm wrong.

amother

Sun, May 05 2019, 5:59 pm

Fuchsia- he made a compromise with them because we were buying a home and didnt have extra thosands to throw around. DH also wasn't in such expensive yeshivos. He owed under 10k to each place and compromised on 3-4k if im remembering correctly.
I think your dedication to your sons learning is admirable even if the way your going about it is questionable..
Im scared your gonna attack me but keep in mind the road to hell was paved with good intentions...

PurpleandGold

Sun, May 05 2019, 6:03 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

, Thank you so much for your answer. I think it's important for everyone to take note, how children view their life has a LOT to do with how it is presented to them. If parents constantly explain to their children that they are receiving things the average gentile could never dream of affording, like a private school education, summer camp, etc, they will have a better impression of how privileged they are. Simple changes to wording are very important as well, like saying "That looks pretty but they are overcharging for it/it's not a good price" instead of "we can't afford it" are so important! "We can't afford it" is limiting, poverty mindset, while "That item/outing looks exciting, but we haven't budgeted for it this month. We want to make sure we have money for everything we need, so Mommy and Totty can talk about budgeting for that in the future..." gives a child a sense that they CAN afford things, with responsible planning. And children can also be told "That wont be something Mommy and Totty will be planning into the budget, but would you like me to help you make a plan to earn and save money so you can buy it for yourself?". Money mindset should be empowering, neither the mindset of lack and limitation, nor the mindset of spoiling and overspending.

amother

Sun, May 05 2019, 6:05 pm

PurpleandGold wrote:

Cant LIKE this enough!!