Invitations that are not invitations

33055

Sun, May 12 2019, 3:19 pm

amother [ Puce ] wrote:

For my wedding 15 years ago, my parents gave me a limit of 25 people to invite. I had a very hard time cutting down my list. I was working and had to invite all my co-workers who I saw on a daily basis plus my closest friends from high school, camp and seminary and a few former teachers that I was close with.

I still wanted everyone else to know that I had thought about them, but there were 60 girls in my high school class and 20 teachers, so I sent the rest of them "chuppah invitations" - a regular invitation, saying the time of the chuppah, but no separate card about the meal.

Some of them came and some didn't. I appreciated all who took the time and understood those who didn't come.

Being we don't usually send out separate meal cards, I would not have understood that invitation didn't include a meal. It's better to say Chuppa only.

33055

Sun, May 12 2019, 4:26 pm

dankbar wrote:

Never saw an invitation that would explicitly say you are only invited to the chuppah.

I have. I have seen it for girl students when a teacher gets married. It's clearly spelled out. It says chuppah only. I have seen the desert only invitations when a Rebbe is hostng a bar mitzvah.

I don't think I have seen them elsewhere.

We go to the type of affairs you go to. I have seen kallahs handing out invitations willy nilly to people they ran into. Notices are placed on shul bulletin boards - multiple shul bulletin boards. Announcements are done on neighborhood notifications. Invitations are sent out a short time before the wedding. I love these great big communal celebrations where everyone is welcome, and people are coming and going all night long.

33055

Sun, May 12 2019, 4:31 pm

amother [ Puce ] wrote:

Right, it's totally understood that an invitation that states kabalas panim and chuppah, means that you are invited to the shmorg and chuppah but not for the meal.

On thing I still regret is that I only invited 25 people and there were a few who could not make it, so I ended up with less than 25. I should have invited 30.

Sorry, it isn't totally understood by everyone. I would miss it.

You kind of have to be blunt with me. Please hand write no meal for you. Then I will understand .

thunderstorm

Sun, May 12 2019, 4:40 pm

Squishy wrote:

Sorry, it isn't totally understood by everyone. I would miss it.

You kind of have to be blunt with me. Please hand write no meal for you. Then I will understand .

When there isn't a return card then it means "no meal for you". That's why the people that don't do return cards make sure to write on the bottom of the card "return cards we do not send for we hope you will attend" ...that means the baalei simcha counted an estimate of who they believe would show up for the meal (they usually over estimate in this case intentionally to he sure there will be enough) and they are saying you can decide what part of the wedding youd like to join and you can come for the meal if you'd like.
Any other invitation I receive without a return card I automatically know that I was not invited for the meal but they would love to see me for the chuppa or dancing.

sub

Sun, May 12 2019, 7:00 pm

A wedding invite has so much info on it
Aufruf- address of shul, time of davening, parsha, address of kiddush if not in shul
Wedding- date, address,time- kabolas panim, chupa, simchas chassan vkallah sometimes even bentching.
Shabbos sheva brachos- parsha, time and place
And of course names of grandparents/ great grandparents
A bar mitzva invite has all minus the sheva brachos
You’re right it is complicated.
Vorts or tnoims are come and go- and e-vites are sent out for those making life easier ( we used to call people)
A bris or pidyon is usually limited to phone calls

33055

Sun, May 12 2019, 7:10 pm

thunderstorm wrote:

I never saw something like that. I checked the invitations I have sitting around, and they don't have return cards, nor do they have that type of wording on it.

Return cards aren't done. Rarely is there assigned tables either in my close circles.

amother

Powderblue

Sun, May 12 2019, 7:22 pm

OP and Lilac, I'm trying to understand your confusion.

You are saying there is a hidden code that only some of us know that tell us whether we're REALLY invited or not. I feel bad that this has obviously caused you angst.

The way I see it is actually simple - nothing hidden, and in fact, straightforward:

An invitation to a wedding without a response card: you are invited to the reception (kabbalas panim) and ceremony (chuppah). The invitation notes the times of these 2 events.

Dinner: separate invitation only. If no dinner card, you are not invited to the dinner.

That's it! If you aren't invited to the dinner, you don't owe a gift. You are just popping into to say mazel tov, perhaps catching a bite or two from the buffet, perhaps watching the ceremony. But you aren't a sit down guest, so no gift needed.

I guess I'm giving away my FFB-hood here, but I do not understand why it's confusing. I don't mean to sound patronizing. I hope, by page 4 of the thread now, you are good to go.

33055

Sun, May 12 2019, 7:34 pm

amother [ Powderblue ] wrote:

Most people in my circles don't give gifts regardless of whether they eat or not.

gamanit

Sun, May 12 2019, 9:20 pm

It's becoming more common in my community to have separate meal cards for those invited for the meal. I don't see the comparison to kamtza and bar kamtza at all. Anyone who shows up will be greeted with a smile and find a place to sit. No one would even remember at the wedding if they had sent someone a meal card or not. I don't recall a single wedding where even if there were seating cards that the seating cards actually meant something. There is always room for one more, especially since there are always some people who planned on coming that didn't make it on time. Hardly anyone gives wedding gifts anymore in my community btw. Only very close family and friends give anything. I also have a policy of dropping in to say mazel tov to simchas that I believe that I am expected regardless of whether the invitation arrived or not. More often than not the invitation arrives after the wedding postdated from long before the wedding.

WhatFor

Sun, May 12 2019, 9:22 pm

amother [ Puce ] wrote:

I was once invited to a very small event (not wedding). The organizer mention in their invite that they wanted to see all of us there, but please let us know ASAP if we couldn't attend, as they would then invite other people instead of us. I thought it got the importance of the RSVP across in a very nice way, while also making the people invited feel special, as if to say, "You are our Tier 1 guests and we genuinely do have limited space that we wanted to fill with you, but if you can't make it, you need to let us know."

amother

Tan

Sun, May 12 2019, 11:01 pm

Wow, I must travel in different circles than most of you because I've never heard of some of these practices other than here on Imamother.

In my world, if you are invited to a wedding then you're invited to the whole thing. Sometimes people have conflicts and will tell the baalei simcha that they're only coming for the chuppah and not to set a place for them, but otherwise we don't have random people just popping in to say mazel tov. I've only seen chuppah only invites when the chossen or kallah is a teacher and they invite their students for the shmorg and chuppah but not for the rest of the evening.

It's very common to invite the community to a bar mitzvah kiddish after davening but not to a meal. Usually it's only family, OOT guests, and maybe close friends invited to the Shabbos meals. Same for an aufruf. Sometimes there's an additional party that more people are invited to as well.

My bas mitzvah was in our shul basement and there wasn't so much room. We squeezed in immediate family and the girls in my grade plus a few neighborhood friends, but there wasn't table space for my parent's friends. My mom invited her closest friends to come just for the dancing and maybe for dessert, but that was so long ago that I don't remember exactly.

When I got married, my MIL held a top administrative position in a large frum organization. To invite all her colleagues and employees to the wedding would have been prohibitively expensive but she didn't want to insult anyone. My in laws solved the problem by hosting one of our sheva brachos. Close family and a few friends came for the meal and everyone else was invited to a dessert reception.

I'm a little in awe as to how some of you manage to get all dressed up multiple times a week just to pop in to a simcha to say mazel tov. That would be a whole production for me to get ready during dinner time or bedtime and actually get out of the house, with or without DH. We don't get so many invitations, but if it's for someone in the shul I'll often send DH without me unless I'm close to the wife. It's just so much simpler.

amother

Mint

Mon, May 13 2019, 12:07 am

I genuinely also want to understand this.

I grew up OOT. My parents are the rav and rebbetzin of a big Shul. My dh and I are the younger members of kah a large family. Between family and friends who flew in to celebrate it was probably about 150 people.
Now my parents, on their rabbinical salary are not exactly mega rich.

So, who to invite from the Shul. There were the people that I am (was) genuinely close with because they either had children my age or we just had a connection. But truthfully I grew up in that Shul. These are my people. So do we invite half the community. 3/4s? Just the board? Just the people we are close to. My parents have been invited (okay usually officiated) at all of their weddings. My parents sat with them in shiva houses, and celebrated brisim and bar/bat mitzvah etc... but it’s 500 people to invite. Plus the 150 that came in. Plus the 50 in total of friends from outside the Shul. That’s 700 people. To serve 700 people dinner is a lot of money.

So we had an early badeken and chupa with light snacks. All invited.

Dinner for family and oot guests.

And everyone for dessert and dancing. There was a beautiful dessert buffet. And I got to celebrate with people I had known since birth. And they seemed excited to celebrate.

Is this so horribly rude?

watergirl

Mon, May 13 2019, 3:44 am

I agree that this is a “thing” in some communities and not others. I am a BT and when I got the first invitation like this (with no rsvp and no mention of dinner), I was thoroughly confused. I called up a friend who was also invited and asked her. Omg I still shudder at her humiliation - she actually was also confused (before I even called her) and assumed it was an error, so she called the baalei simcha to rsvp and said that they must have forgotten to include the card so she is replying via phone. They told her she is only invited for the kabalas panim/chuppah/dancing. This is how I learned about this thing. It was many many years ago and since then, I’ve received many invitations like this but I still cringe when I remember my friend’s story. Fwiw, when I got married, in my community (modern orth), we would invite people to “crash”. Essentially the same thing as the no rsvp card invite, but it was verbal. It was so common in my community that the caterers knew to ask if the host wanted a “crashers table” to he set up. Really the same concept but a different way to go about it; seems more up front to me.

Recently, we received an invitation to a wedding that was great - clearly spelled out that they would like us to come for KP/chuppah/dancing. But when we got there, the execution was horrible and it was actually kind of embarrassing. Not the fault of the baalei simcha who meant well, but was a bad experience.

amother

Purple

Mon, May 13 2019, 3:52 am

amother [ Mint ] wrote:

No, it is not rude at all. Many communities tend to have larger and larger families as the time goes by and they pray in a large shul. Cost of living and tuition is not going down, on the contrary.
I'm Litvish chareidi in EY but I'm very much pro that they are takkanot in certain chassidic circles (number of guests invited etc.) It takes off a lot of pressure for everyone involved. IMO, only advantages.

amother

Purple

Mon, May 13 2019, 4:02 am

amother [ Tan ] wrote:

In EY, the charedi Knesset members and others who are very well known to the public usually have multiple smachot to attend.Every.Evening. Think of it: Every.Evening. It can only work out or them if they do the pop-in and out solution.

amother

Purple

Mon, May 13 2019, 4:10 am

sub wrote:

Come on, is that really is a problem?

amother

Purple

Mon, May 13 2019, 4:18 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

No, you are misreading me. I am not insulted at all, and I prefer NOT to be invited if the host does not have money or space to seat me. Then I would not be in the awkward position of trying to figure out when and whether I'm expected to attend.

Then how about calling a friend or two in your circles or people in the baal hasimcha's circles and discuss it with them. Just ask them what their opinion is. Straight communication is not a bad thing.