G.O. Head and "Jobs" in Lakewood high-schools - Favoritism??

aricelli

Tue, May 21 2019, 8:31 pm

amother [ Seagreen ] wrote:

I wrote a short story for Mishpacha a few years ago on this topic, and the feedback was intense - so many people were still hurting from the way their High Schools treated them when it came to "jobs" and I heard from many people within the school administration that they were trying to change the system...

It's sad to read that it's the same old same old....not that the cynic within me is too surprised.

Hey! If thats the one I’m thinking of it was awesome!!

thunderstorm

Tue, May 21 2019, 8:37 pm

smileforamile wrote:

This was always my argument. When I came back from seminary, I wrote a respectful but strong letter to the head of extracurriculars at my school about the lack of opportunity for most girls within the school. I did not sign my name to it, but I left enough clues that someone could possibly figure it out. (I was pretty surprised how quickly she got it, actually.)

She took me seriously for about 5 minutes. Maybe I should make that point again when I see her, since she just called me to help her mark math Regents again this year.

I actually spoke up on behalf of some of my classmates while I was still a student. I told the mechaneches that they view the school as a factory and that we are all just numbers. They made no effort to really get to know their students or to see what they truly had to offer. It was only a few popular , chashuv, loud mouth or rich girls that got any acknowledgment. I myself built up connections with some teachers but that's because I was comfortable and not shy. So many girls needed acknowledgement and didn't receive it for all four years of highschool. I'll never forget mentioning to my teacher one specific girls name asking why she was never given any job at all and when I said "Rivky Schwartz "...she paused and asked "who's that ? I don't even know who she is" and that was my point...they don't even know who their students are. Give a lesson mark some papers and have a nice day.

amother

Bronze

Tue, May 21 2019, 8:49 pm

thunderstorm wrote:

Exactly. I was the brainiac nerd in high school. Everyone thought I had what I wanted -- recognition from the teachers because I was so smart. Even the teachers thought that that should've been enough for me. Did they see me at all? Nope. I've seen countless teachers since then and they all remember me as a genius. My elementary school principal was nice enough to tell that to my husband, and when he said, "And she's very nice, too," she responded, "That's just the icing on the cake; she's a genius." I was very hurt by that encounter, but when I posted about it on Imamother, I was accused of humble-bragging.

The rebbetzin of one of the big rabbanim in Flatbush was my teacher, and she called my mother to give a nachas report over how many pesukim I memorized. My mother rolled her eyes.

And yes, at least I had some recognition; others don't even have that, and I get it. But it's part of a bigger theme of having only one self-definition. If you're really pretty and all anyone has to say about you is that, are you going to want to hear "you're beautiful" anymore? Will it even be a compliment?

Last edited by amother on Mon, Jul 08 2019, 11:44 am; edited 1 time in total

thunderstorm

Tue, May 21 2019, 8:51 pm

smileforamile wrote:

I couldn't agree with you more.

Simple1

Tue, May 21 2019, 9:18 pm

I'm happy the way they do it in my dds school - not one of the older schools. Yes, probably the more outgoing girls get GO, and that's natural. But they make plenty of opportunities for the girls to get involved. And everyone gets a job, playheads, dance, choir, chagigas, and everything in between. I've noticed they really try to mix it up. According to dd no one really is jealous.

When I went to school ages ago, it was not like that. The quiet girls were forgotten. And some of them could have been so capable, it was so sad.

Simple1

Tue, May 21 2019, 9:26 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

Why do we have to treat teenagers differently than they will be treated as adults? It's part of life that the more charismatic and well connected get the plum jobs. That's just how life is.

Because they're still growing and at a very tumultuous stage. Some girls have real talents and capabilities, but they lack the confidence to put themselves out there. A little extra consideration from the school staff can go a long way in really building the girls who need it most.

amother

Bronze

Tue, May 21 2019, 9:33 pm

Simple1 wrote:

Well said.

Last edited by amother on Mon, Jul 08 2019, 11:44 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Ginger

Tue, May 21 2019, 9:33 pm

smileforamile wrote:

Every word of this. In upper elementary school we did one of those games where you pass around a paper with your name on it and everyone had to write something nice about you. About 75 percent of the class wrote "smart" or some equivalent. It doesn't mean much when that's all they can see about you. I'm so much more than my brain.

amother

Bronze

Tue, May 21 2019, 9:34 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Ok, it's 2019 and this is still going on!! Ladies, we are not stuck in the nineties anymore, the issues are all out there for the frum world to gape at. What can we do to force the schools to change these ridiculous policies?

One of the problems is that we may be living in 2019, but many of the teachers (especially in the in-town schools) are still from the 1980s. You can't change them that much.

Also, who gets the jobs whenever one of those ancient teachers retires? Another groupie from the same mold - probably the one who was G.O. in high school Wink

So nothing changes.

Last edited by amother on Mon, Jul 08 2019, 11:43 am; edited 1 time in total

pause

Tue, May 21 2019, 9:48 pm

smileforamile wrote:

I remember that thread, and then I fully agreed with you and still do now. (I don't want to link it because you were amother there, but you can go back and see my responses.)

amother

Apricot

Tue, May 21 2019, 9:55 pm

amother [ Violet ] wrote:

This goes on in every high school and camp. Even back in my high school and camo years, it was always the same girls and their sisters that got the major jobs. I was crying about the unfairness of it then already. The other girls aren't even given a chance. In high school when we got play jobs, we were told to choose between 2 jobs we wanted and we'd get one. Obviously many girls didn't get either one. I told the principal that this just proves my point that they give the top jobs to the same popular girls over and over and our opinions do not matter.

No, it certainly does NOT happen like this in every high school. Shameless plug for Bnos Yisroel of Baltimore - they literally give each and every girl a prime chance to shine. Anyone can be a “head” if she wants to be.

amother

Emerald

Tue, May 21 2019, 10:00 pm

So interesting. I was definitely on the nebby side in high school and did not get any “cool” jobs. It hurt. On the other hand, I think it made me pretty resilient and empathetic. Over the years I have “grown into” myself and become much more “with it,” I guess you could say. But I still identify with that little girl and as a mother have worked pretty hard to impart sensitivity to my daughter... who happens to be extremely popular, smart and talented! Only the two of us know about how seriously she takes personal growth, middos tovos, and respecting others. As someone who was really hurt as a youngster I want my daughter to understand that school can be a really painful place for some kids. Yes, I hate the system, but now that I am Baruch HaShem on this flip side, I appreciate that a girl who works hard can be chosen for these roles and hopefully uses her talents to respectfully include and empower everyone... !

amother

Bronze

Tue, May 21 2019, 10:10 pm

pause wrote:

I remember that thread, and then I fully agreed with you and still do now. (I don't want to link it because you were amother there, but you can go back and see my responses.)

Here was the thread.

https://www.imamother.com/foru.....24969

I used to go amother almost exclusively. Now I go under my sn more often than not.

Last edited by amother on Mon, Jul 08 2019, 11:43 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Bronze

Tue, May 21 2019, 10:11 pm

amother [ Apricot ] wrote:

That's why there have been a few posts about it being better in OOT schools.

Last edited by amother on Mon, Jul 08 2019, 11:42 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Tue, May 21 2019, 10:11 pm

amother [ Apricot ] wrote:

Yup, Mrs. Sara Itzkowitz should go around the country and give seminars on how to run a school. Her philosophy on education and the school culture she created should be the models EVERY BY school follows. I always say Mrs. C.R. Twerski (Bnos Yaakov of Lakewood) for how to design a cumulative curriculum and and Mrs. Sarah Itzkowitz for how to design school culture. Two top educators in this country. They should give a joint seminar in every BY school.

amother

Gold

Tue, May 21 2019, 10:34 pm

amother [ Violet ] wrote:

I always say that gehinnom has a separate section for principals, camp directors, administrators..... they get so full of it from authority that they forget that their job is to nurture and be a roll model for yiddisha neshamos.

Never heard that yet but it's a terrible thing to say!
For the most part, until now I've dealt with people that are extremely devoted to their students and selflessly work very hard to make things right. (I have a large family so I've dealt with a lot of school staff over the last 20 years. And I'm far from finished!)
There were exceptions of course but definitely not the majority!
Yes, mistakes do happen and not everything is perfect but that comment is really harsh!