Shtisel's "Ruchami" will play Devorah Feldman in Unorthodox

Bnei Berak 10

Mon, May 27 2019, 10:12 am

sequoia wrote:

You guys honestly think she should have rejected the role? On principle?

Actors play all sorts of characters, including thieves and murderers. It’s their job. It’s their craft. And yet this one particular role should be so beyond the pale that Shira Haas should have refused it? Just because she was in Shtisel?

I second this. Tnx Sequoia!

amother

Tan

Mon, May 27 2019, 10:13 am

amother [ Forestgreen ] wrote:

Ex charedi OTD adults who got out from decades of submission to their parents and rebbes are not looking to follow new leaders. I know all the players you’re discussing and none of them consider themselves, or are looked upon as, leaders. They may be active in bringing some of the community together and providing resources, but they have no authority and no way to dictate to a very diverse group of people how they should think, feel or act. It just doesn’t exist.

Again, I’m not discussing the truthfulness of the memoir.

They may not be looking for new leaders but that does not negate the fact that some of them do take on leadership positions. From being board members to doing administrative work and being social workers at Footsteps to leading the otd facebook and meetup groups, etc. No group can survive without leaders and the otd community is no different. Going against the grain has consequences and there have been some people like Feldman who have been outcast because they dared to be different.

Anyway, do you really think that people who grew up so oppressed would have healthy behaviors instead of just repeating what they learned at home? So now some of them get to lead and decide who does and doesn't make it in the group, why would they give up such a powerful position by allowing others to take over?

amother

Forestgreen

Mon, May 27 2019, 10:20 am

amother [ Tan ] wrote:

People can become active in leadership positions such as board members or meetup groups without having the authority to control. You think just because someone has a Meetup group and he organizes outings to movies and parks he is now a leader and has the ability to tell people what to do, and to decide who does or doesn’t belong in whatever group you imagine to exist? You are very mistaken if you think that’s the case.

A lot of people who walked away have spent years in therapy and working on their emotional health and intelligence, so yes, they are absolutely capable of breaking cycles of bad behaviors and emerging as individuals with their own ideas and interests. Your assumptions here couldn’t be more wrong.

Bnei Berak 10

Mon, May 27 2019, 10:23 am

Mevater wrote:

And how.

I thought after having acted in Shtisel, a kind and fair portrayal of the Charedi community, a Chiloni actress would develop a soft-er spot for Charedim.

That clearly didnt happen with this actress.

She is an actress, not a spokeswoman for the charedi community and not a mekarevet or mashpia. An actress in a business in which competition is fierce.

imasoftov

Mon, May 27 2019, 10:29 am

Even if it's true that the OTD community disapproves of Feldman's memoir, as this seems to have been expressed in places that most of us in this thread don't have access to, perhaps the actress (as well as everyone else involved in the film) also did not see those reactions

amother

Forestgreen

Mon, May 27 2019, 10:34 am

imasoftov wrote:

It’s ridiculous to place blame on an actress for accepting a role. That’s literally her one job. Whether or not she knows of the memoir’s negative publicity is irrelevant as it relates to her and her career.

amother

Tan

Mon, May 27 2019, 10:51 am

amother [ Forestgreen ] wrote:

Yes to the bolded. That is exactly what being in a leadership position means. Think about this forum, Yael is in the leadership position, she can decide who she wants on this forum and who she doesn't want. That is exactly what meetup leaders or facebook group leaders do as well. Yes, they make the rules and accept people or kick people out based on that. And many are not healthy even if it looks like it but that is a discussion for another time and thread.

amother

Tan

Mon, May 27 2019, 10:53 am

amother [ Forestgreen ] wrote:

A good actor would do the full research to understand all the nuances and background information of the role s/he is playing. So her acting in this role will be only be as good as the research she has done and this whole debacle is part of it. Cant wait to see it.

amother

Aubergine

Mon, May 27 2019, 11:07 am

amother [ Tan ] wrote:

Again - define the OTD community. The Imamother community is defined as the members of this online forum.... and more specifically the active members.

amother

Tan

Mon, May 27 2019, 11:20 am

amother [ Aubergine ] wrote:

Again - define the OTD community. The Imamother community is defined as the members of this online forum.... and more specifically the active members.

OTD Community is an umbrella term that describes different groups as well as people who prefer not to be part of any group and remain neutral.
So under the OTD Community umbrella you will have Footsteps, OTD meetup, OTD Facebook groups, the group of people living double lives, the individuals that want nothing to do with groups and just want to do their own thing, etc.
I guess I see it similar to Chasidish, there are different groups and then there are those who are neutral. There are Satmar people who follow Rav Aron while others follow Zalmen Leib, then there is Bobov with their division of Rabbis, Belz, Munkatch, the more neutral ones who may not follow a Rebbe, etc.

How would you define the otd community?

amother

Aubergine

Mon, May 27 2019, 11:54 am

amother [ Tan ] wrote:

You can't be a member of community and not be part of a group. And if you aren't part of a group you certainly can't have a leader.

An umbrella term - isn't a community.

No doubt there are footsteps members who hangout together - organize meals - whatever. They are the Footsteps community (I think they self refer as "ex-charedi") - and there are leaders within that community...

I wouldn't define the OTD community - I don't think the term means anything.

amother

Pewter

Mon, May 27 2019, 1:53 pm

amother [ Aubergine ] wrote:

You can't be a member of community and not be part of a group . And if you aren't part of a group you certainly can't have a leader.

An umbrella term - isn't a community.

No doubt there are footsteps members who hangout together - organize meals - whatever. They are the Footsteps community (I think they self refer as "ex-charedi") - and there are leaders within that community...

I wouldn't define the OTD community - I don't think the term means anything.

Why not. I'm a member of the Chassidishe community, but I'm not part of any particular group - unless you want to group me with those who aren't part of any particular group.

This is my personal pet peeve - I find that people in my community are always trying to group people together, to place people into a certain box. I am one for myself, I do not align myself with any particular group, except for the one special group of being a yiddishe kind. I can be chassidish without any specific affiliation, I can be an frum orthodox Jew without any special affiliation, and I can be a human person without any specific affiliation - and the same goes for anyone else, be they whoever they are.

The OTD community is the same like any community - a mix of all kinds of individuals with different mindsets, personalities and attitudes. It's not one for all, or all for one.

amother

Aubergine

Mon, May 27 2019, 2:03 pm

amother [ Pewter ] wrote:

A community has to have something in common beyond what their formal life looked like.

A mix of "all kinds of individuals with different mindsets, personalities and attitudes" is not a community. Having a common thread of "I was once this - but now I'm not" doesn't create a community.

there is no "Off the Imamother Community" populated by everyone who stopped visiting this site - simply by virtue of them leaving.

A community is a small or large social unit (a group of living things) that has something in common, such as norms, religion, values, or identity. ~as suggested by a wikipedia editor

amother

Pewter

Mon, May 27 2019, 2:28 pm

amother [ Aubergine ] wrote:

Key word being "something". It could be religion, or could be a value, or it could be identity. But just because we share a similar value it doesn't mean that we share many other mindsets, or have similar attitudes or beliefs etc. And it definitely doesn't mean that all OTD have an ax to grind with their former communities, or that all are associated with people who do.

We decry anyone who stereotypes us, but we (as in our communities) have no issues stereotyping the OTD group. They are all individuals, just as we are. They all gravitate towards different things, just like we do. And they all take issue with the few noisemakers who on their own accord put themselves out to be the face of their community - just like we do.

amother

Aubergine

Mon, May 27 2019, 2:31 pm

dankbar wrote:

They usually do tend to cluster though. They hang out with friends, do stuff together, support each others in their new lifestyle. It usually is not loners/individuals especially by teens. They teach each others what to do.

There are OTD communities.. For sure. But they are opt-in - not default.

I'm just really fussed by the notion of "OTD community" as a catch-all descriptor for those who have left Frumkeit.

amother

Aubergine

Mon, May 27 2019, 2:37 pm

amother [ Pewter ] wrote:

I have blue eyes. Am I part of a blue eyed community?

In the least you identify as "Chassidish".

Does a formerly frum person need to atleast identify as "OTD" to be part of "OTD group" you've described?