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Kid not afraid to sit in my chair
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amother




OP


Post  Tue, Jun 11 2019, 6:02 am
I vaguely remember reading/hearing somewhere (in the context of Judaism) that children should fear their parents but what it means by fear them is that the child wouldn't sit in the parent's chair.

Well as soon as I get up, my 1.5 year old gets in my chair. What should I do? Would just putting them down and saying "that's Mommy's chair" be good enough?
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amother




Mint


Post  Tue, Jun 11 2019, 6:05 am
It is indeed a halacha of morah av ve-em , but you are dealing with a very young child. Kids that age can be told what to do, but you can't expect them to remember or understand.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 11 2019, 6:08 am
You're asking an awful lot from a baby.

Just make it part of the house rules, like "Don't write on the walls, don't run in the street, don't feed chocolate to the dog." If it's a normal routine in your home, he'll figure it out.
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amother




OP


Post  Tue, Jun 11 2019, 6:13 am
Just curious -- why the hugs?
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 11 2019, 6:20 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Just curious -- why the hugs?


Because you sound young, and this is your first child. Because you expect a baby to "fear you" and respect a chair that looks like all the other chairs (I'm assuming). Because you think that which chair your baby chooses reflects something negative about your relationship with your child, and with Yiddishkeit in general. Because the "chair" is a metaphor for respect, not a literal halacha.

Maybe this is just your baby's way of saying that he wants to be like Mommy, or to feel close to you, or to get your attention.

If you label a chair "Moishe's Special Chair", there is a good chance that your baby will want to only sit in his chair, and will leave yours alone.
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amother




cornflower


Post  Tue, Jun 11 2019, 6:41 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Just curious -- why the hugs?



Because your applying the concept in Judaism, that children should fear their parents and not sit in their parents seat, to the actions of a 1.5 year old who obviously doesn't know what he's doing. It should be obvious that this is not cause for concern. This does sound like your oldest.
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imasinger




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 11 2019, 6:52 am
Three is the age of beginning chinuch.

Please don't try too much too soon. Right now, your goals as a parent should focus on building so much of a positive bond that when your DC is old enough, s/he will be eager to please you.

If it bothers you that your toddler climbs on your chair, maybe gently pick them up, and say with a smile in your voice, "that's Mommy's chair, want to sit on Mommy's lap?"
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amother




Smokey


Post  Tue, Jun 11 2019, 7:21 am
This does not apply to a baby.
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amother




Silver


Post  Tue, Jun 11 2019, 7:29 am


Last edited by amother on Tue, Jun 11 2019, 7:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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amother




OP


Post  Tue, Jun 11 2019, 7:34 am
imasinger wrote:
Three is the age of beginning chinuch.

Please don't try too much too soon. Right now, your goals as a parent should focus on building so much of a positive bond that when your DC is old enough, s/he will be eager to please you.

If it bothers you that your toddler climbs on your chair, maybe gently pick them up, and say with a smile in your voice, "that's Mommy's chair, want to sit on Mommy's lap?"


So until age 3 I should let him sit in my chair?
Sorry if I sound uneducated, but I'm a BT so I don't know how frum families do things.

Also, I have a 1 year age gap between my kids, so when my oldest will be 3, the younger one will be 2. Would I tell the oldest that he can't sit in my chair anymore, but still let the younger one climb up? Wouldn't that cause bad feelings between them?
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blessedjmom




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 11 2019, 7:38 am
Let him sit on your lap, on your chair . At this stage- that's what he needs. waiting
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Iymnok




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 11 2019, 7:40 am
Listen to FF. You have to teach your kids to do mtzvos, as well as safety. Just as you teach them not to touch the stove, you teach them not to sit in your seat. WHEN (not if) they do, remind them.
Same with brachos and saying please and thank you.
Just don’t be concerned when they mess up.
Gil chinuch is somewhere between 3-9 depending on the halacha. And it’s inly practice until they understand. They only have a chiyyuv after bar/bas Mitzvah.
waiting
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sirel




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 11 2019, 7:41 am
It's not a hard rule like not turning on the light on shabbos. It's a guideline for instilling awe and respect in our children for their parents.

Personally, I don't say anything about my chair. But I will comment when a child sits in DH's chair. And dh does the same for me. That way the child knows it's about respecting your parents and not about personal honor.
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roses




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 11 2019, 7:50 am
This is absolutely not something to be concerned about or even think about as you are raising your young children. Things will naturally fall into place as the children near bar/bas mitzvah age. It is not something I ever thought about or expended any energy on in my chinuch. Please forget about this and focus on the important things-building attachment, love, communication, bonding, and emotionally healthy children. This includes letting them climb on whatever chair they choose to and be healthy, exploring, young children
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amother




Mint


Post  Tue, Jun 11 2019, 7:52 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
So until age 3 I should let him sit in my chair?
Sorry if I sound uneducated, but I'm a BT so I don't know how frum families do things.

Also, I have a 1 year age gap between my kids, so when my oldest will be 3, the younger one will be 2. Would I tell the oldest that he can't sit in my chair anymore, but still let the younger one climb up? Wouldn't that cause bad feelings between them?


Frum families do things just the way your family did, enforcing household rules as developmentally appropriate. You wouldn't ask a toddler to make her own bed or load the dishwasher, even though that might be a household rule later on. Same with religious rules - you can't expect a small child to know the difference between milk and meat, or the difference between shabbos and weekdays. You don't serve milk and meat together, and when a child asks for milk to go with his hamburger, you'll just offer a substitute and say we don't have milk and meat together. Or if a child wants to color on shabbos, you offer a different toy and say, on shabbos we play with this instead. Kids pick up what they see. It takes years. Don't second guess yourself and don't think that your kids need to be tzaddikim from birth. They need to be loved. Everything else is just the details.
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imasinger




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 11 2019, 8:00 am
OP, you need someone to guide you IRL, soon and often. It's a known problem (and I say this as a BT myself) for BT's to damage their children's emunah by being so strict that they turn away from yiddishkeit.

I'd suggest both a rebbetzin you trust, and, if your children are in great childcare, their Morah.

To answer your immediate question, no, you don't treat a 2 year old and a 3 year old differently in this regard just because one passed that magic birthday marker. Beginning chinuch doesn't mean steamrollering a young child, or treating them terribly differently than a younger sibling. You gear it by their readiness, just like toilet training, or language learning.


Last edited by imasinger on Tue, Jun 11 2019, 8:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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mommy3b2c




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 11 2019, 8:02 am
FranticFrummie wrote:
Because you sound young, and this is your first child. Because you expect a baby to "fear you" and respect a chair that looks like all the other chairs (I'm assuming). Because you think that which chair your baby chooses reflects something negative about your relationship with your child, and with Yiddishkeit in general. Because the "chair" is a metaphor for respect, not a literal halacha.

Maybe this is just your baby's way of saying that he wants to be like Mommy, or to feel close to you, or to get your attention.

If you label a chair "Moishe's Special Chair", there is a good chance that your baby will want to only sit in his chair, and will leave yours alone.


Very well said. You are talking about a baby fearing you. Scratching Head
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JoyInTheMorning




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 11 2019, 9:00 am
OP, hold on to the instincts that you had before you became a BT. Frum or not frum, mothers instinctively know how to raise babies, and the right way is to love them, not to make them afraid of us.

I agree with what imasinger said about finding a mentor within the religious community, but more important is sticking with a set of good values. Personally, as an FFB, I have found that I have learned a lot from the secular world. In particular, I made a decision early on never to hit my children, and I have stuck by it. I always knew, when I was hit as a small child, that it was wrong for a grown up to do this to a child, but I got my validation for this belief from the secular world. Thankfully, refraining from using slapping as a parenting tool is now a part of mainstream frum parenting philosophy as well.

Regarding not sitting in a parent's chair: I learned this from a teacher when I started elementary school. In fact, my European parents were rather rigid, and as it happened, we each had our place to sit and nobody ever used another chair unless we were explicitly told to, for example, if we had company. It was never an issue. I think that as a 1.5 year old, I never sat in a chair anyway. I remember back to when I was two, and I remember sitting on the couch, the floor, my crib (and after, bed), and a high chair, but not a regular chair until I was older.
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Chayalle




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 11 2019, 12:04 pm
Your baby should not fear you (nor should your toddler....). Your children should feel that you are their greatest protector in life, and that you love them to the ends of the earth. That they are the most precious thing ever given to you.

When they get a little older, you set certain boundaries because that is for your child's own benefit. It's good for a child to have parents they look up to, it makes them feel secure. So we don't sit in Mommy's chair. Not because the child should be afraid. But because the child should feel they have a Mommy.
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Zehava




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 11 2019, 12:10 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I vaguely remember reading/hearing somewhere (in the context of Judaism) that children should fear their parents but what it means by fear them is that the child wouldn't sit in the parent's chair.

Well as soon as I get up, my 1.5 year old gets in my chair. What should I do? Would just putting them down and saying "that's Mommy's chair" be good enough?

Can’t decide if this is satire
You just never know these days
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