Would you say something?-son being taken advantage of

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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Teenagers and Older children

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amother

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 2:15 pm

I'm thinking of sending my son's camp director a letter expressing my disapproval of the way he is treating my son.

Please tell me if you think my outrage is justified or if I am over overreacting.

My son is 19 and managed the camp canteen last summer.
He is a very bright hardworking, trustworthy, and dependable young adult.
He placed the orders, set up the canteen for business, and prepared the vending machines and food on a daily basis.

I believe the camp director took advantage of him.
My son does not do well with change and so he is returning to the camp to run the canteen again even though the amount of money he came home with is abysmal relative to how much work he put into operating the canteen.

So he will be working under the same terms and conditions as last year because my son suffers from low self-esteem and does not know how to advocate for himself.

But does this give the Rabbi who owns the camp the right to take advantage of him?
I mentioned my disappointment to someone and she claims the Rabbi is known as a very "ehrlich" individual and there must be a misunderstanding.

The Rabbi's stipulations for my son are that he must pay the camper's fee of $1800 for the summer in addition to a $3000 exorbitant rental fee of the dumpy canteen room.

Basically, the Rabbi made a minimal profit of $3000 while my son was left with $800 (after the $4800 he had to pay the camp) for the 8 1/2 weeks he spent operating the canteen.

He had to wait half a year to receive the money as the Rabbi kept stalling or avoiding his calls.

The Rabbi kept the financial records and calculated the profits and so my son has no idea if the accounting is accurate or not.

The Rabbi also stipulated that my son sell him the canteen inventory at cost price.

So basically my son is being treated as a camp staffer and is being hired to operate the canteen which is a necessary service that the camp needs to provide to its campers.
And he needs to pay $4800 for this privilege, and hope some profit is left over afterwards.
(If you have bachurim you know that they need to eat more than three camp meals a day).

I feel it is unfair and dishonest to charge him for both a bed and for utilizing the canteen room, leaving him with very little money after all the hours and sweat he put into the job, not to mention the white shirts and pants that need to be trashed and replaced after the summer.

I hope I wrote this post in an articulate manner.
Thanks for reading.
What do you think?

FranticFrummie

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 2:19 pm

So, he's getting less than $100 a week for all that work? Surprised

Buy him a lawnmower, and send him door to door doing yard service. He can be his own boss, build self esteem, and make a heck of a lot more money.

SuperWify

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 2:23 pm

Stop calling the camp guy a “Rabbi” from your side of story he doesn’t seem to deserve the title.

I definitely would not let my child work there but if he insists I’d give this guy a price of my mind!

merrygold

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 2:24 pm

OP, if your son is 19, you need to teach him how to bring this up on his own.
But in any case, leave out the ending about the white shirt and pants. That's not relevant to the issue.
Hatzlacha Rabba to your son!

Mollie

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 2:27 pm

That’s NY camps for you, my son was a junior counselor last year and worked hard all summer and it cost me $2500. He made around $500 in tips

amother

Natural

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 2:32 pm

merrygold wrote:

It's relevant because it's part of the cost that she has for the privilege of her son working there.

They take advantage of the young adults looking for summer jobs. I don't know how this is legal.

DD is getting paid $150 a week to work in a camp. Between the cost of the flights and Starbucks, I would be better off financially giving her $150 a week to work at home.

amother

Ruby

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 2:34 pm

Op , I feel bad for your son. But, everyone who runs day camps pay their over 20(or 20) yrs old counselors around 1300 or a little more for working full days for 8 weeks. That's less than minimum wage, and even if they get 1600 or a little more, its still less than minimum wage. But, all the day camps in my neighborhood do that and the counselors work there for so little because they have no better job.

Yes, the owner/director makes all the profit as part of his parnassa, and this is similar to nursing home owners cutting staff to make large profit or real estate owners not giving hot water /enough heat...to make more profit....

Op, if you speak to the director, just know you may not see a change. Most camp jobs are hard work, long hours for little pay. I'm sorry about your son being in this situation.

SixOfWands

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 2:34 pm

SuperWify wrote:

You can't tell a 19 year-old what to do. Trust me on that one.

OP, you need to help your son learn to stand up for himself and address the issue with the camp administration. He should be prepared for their push-back about the fact that canteen hours are minimal, and that he is participating with camp activities / learning when he's not manning the canteen.

In any case, kol hakavod to your DS. That's a real skill -- running a store, doing inventory, etc. -- that will translate well for him in the future.

groovy1224

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 2:38 pm

What would happen if your son said no? Could they easily find someone else to do the job or would there suddenly be room for negotiation?

Maybe they can work out a more fair deal where he pays the camp a percentage of his profits?

ora_43

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 2:38 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

So he will be working under the same terms and conditions as last year because my son suffers from low self-esteem and does not know how to advocate for himself.

Which is exactly why you shouldn't send the letter. The only way he's going to learn to advocate for himself is by dealing with situations like this himself.

Even if that means he decides to stay quiet, and lose out. That's still part of the process.

Do talk to him about fair and unfair working conditions, and make sure he's aware he has other options, but let him decide what to do about it.

Quote:

The Rabbi's stipulations for my son are that he must pay the camper's fee of $1800 for the summer in addition to a $3000 exorbitant rental fee of the dumpy canteen room.

To be fair, he's not just paying for the room itself, he's paying for the location. IOW for access to a captive market.

It's hard to say how reasonable or unreasonable the rest is without understanding more about how many hours he's working and what he does with the rest of his time. The camper's fee sounds very high - is that just for a room and board? Access to camp facilities? I assume at 19 he's not taking part in any camp activities, right?

Mollie

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 2:44 pm

From my understanding, running the canteen is a prestigious position in camp. My guess is that he would find someone else to run it under those terms pretty quickly

watergirl

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 2:47 pm

This is the second time I am saying this in a thread today (I was watching Dr. Phil and he says this often so its really his quote) - your son is not a victim, he is a volunteer.

The camp owner is not taking advantage of him. Your son knows the terms, did it last year, and is willingly volunteering to do this again. Its his choice. Accept the terms, try to renegotiate, or walk. But he has to accept his role in accepting terms of a job that are unacceptable. And you can coach him, but do not contact the rabbi for a 19 year old young man.

amother

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 2:51 pm

Mollie wrote:

From my understanding, running the canteen is a prestigious position in camp. My guess is that he would find someone else to run it under those terms pretty quickly

It’s a hard job with a lot of responsibilities.
Dealing with vendors, hungry boys, staff families and their little kids.
Frequenting shoprite to purchase soda cans.
He needs to go up a few days early to set up.
An adult ran the canteen before him (he started as a camper) and I highly doubt he was doing it for $800.

amother

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 2:52 pm

watergirl wrote:

I hear you.
Something to think about.

amother

Ecru

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 2:53 pm

If you're in the NY/NJ area, I would say something. This community does not expect 19 yr old boys to be adults. They barely expect married 22 yr olds to grow up. So go for it. Say whatever you want.

However, bear in mind that if your son is happy doing the work, and likes the environment, then it may be a good place for him. Its hard to find things to do for older teens in the yeshivish circles, so it might be worthwhile. But speaking up can possibly get him better terms.

I'm sorry. Sometimes the level of disparity in incomes for camp jobs is sickening. The way they work the girls is stomach-turning. I understand the way you feel. Its so hard to balance the going with the community expectations and speaking up about ridiculousness.

amother

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 2:54 pm

ora_43 wrote:

No, he’s joining the camp for the sole purpose of operating the camp.
I believe that staff girls in camps do not pay for rooming.

Mollie

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 2:57 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

It’s good experience for the future at least!

Can he get SYEP?

watergirl

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 2:57 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Shoprite?

Out of curiosity, why is he spending full retail price on food? Is he then hiking the price up even MORE when he sells it at camp to make a profit? Could this be part of the reason he made so little last summer? Why isn't he going to a wholesale store to shop for products to sell? Even if there is no costco (or the like) near him, maybe it would be more worth his while to find other camps in the area to coop with and place an order with a coke or pepsi vendor and have it delivered to one location and divvy up the cans, etc.

HelloG

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 3:01 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I'm thinking of sending my son's camp director a letter expressing my disapproval of the way he is treating my son.

Please tell me if you think my outrage is justified or if I am over overreacting.

My son is 19 and managed the camp canteen last summer.
He is a very bright hardworking, trustworthy, and dependable young adult.
He placed the orders, set up the canteen for business, and prepared the vending machines and food on a daily basis.

I believe the camp director took advantage of him.
My son does not do well with change and so he is returning to the camp to run the canteen again even though the amount of money he came home with is abysmal relative to how much work he put into operating the canteen.

So he will be working under the same terms and conditions as last year because my son suffers from low self-esteem and does not know how to advocate for himself.

But does this give the Rabbi who owns the camp the right to take advantage of him?
I mentioned my disappointment to someone and she claims the Rabbi is known as a very "ehrlich" individual and there must be a misunderstanding.

The Rabbi's stipulations for my son are that he must pay the camper's fee of $1800 for the summer in addition to a $3000 exorbitant rental fee of the dumpy canteen room.

Basically, the Rabbi made a minimal profit of $3000 while my son was left with $800 (after the $4800 he had to pay the camp) for the 8 1/2 weeks he spent operating the canteen.

He had to wait half a year to receive the money as the Rabbi kept stalling or avoiding his calls.

The Rabbi kept the financial records and calculated the profits and so my son has no idea if the accounting is accurate or not.

The Rabbi also stipulated that my son sell him the canteen inventory at cost price.

So basically my son is being treated as a camp staffer and is being hired to operate the canteen which is a necessary service that the camp needs to provide to its campers.
And he needs to pay $4800 for this privilege, and hope some profit is left over afterwards.
(If you have bachurim you know that they need to ear more than three camp meals a day).

I feel it is unfair and dishonest to charge him for both a bed and for utilizing the canteen room, leaving him with very little money after all the hours and sweat he put into the job, not to mention the white shirts and pants that need to be trashed and replaced after the summer.

I hope I wrote this post in an articulate manner.
Thanks for reading.
What do you think?

totally off.
staff shouldn't be paying for camp.
the canteens I know about don't charge rent. they're glad someone is doing the job of providing a canteen.
and asking for cost price is unfair. we had that discussion with the manager last year in camp. he wanted cost price. the person working the canteen is doing the ordering, laying out the money, and taking the loss and all.
tell your son to call other canteen workers and ask about their arrangements. this might make him more confident to put his foot down

amother

Scarlet

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 3:09 pm

watergirl wrote:

Gefen operates under a few names and they have basically everything a canteen needs. ordering wholesale is a great idea

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