Would you say something?-son being taken advantage of

somuchgoodness

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 3:10 pm

totaly agree with you watergirl. No one is being taken advantage of. Live is abt supply and demand. You cNt demand more money or less work if there's an oversupply of workers vying for the job. Your paying the camp to entertain your son in an envirement ur comfterable with. would you rather him work in Manhattan? Sit at home bored? What's your options? I know mothers who paid local frum businesses to hire their older teens to entertain them over the summer. If you and your son can't appreciate the opportunity the camp is giving him then This is ur time to train ur son. Will he always just stick with a job he's miserable at just because that's what he always did?

watergirl

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 3:13 pm

amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:

Gefen operates under a few names and they have basically everything a canteen needs. ordering wholesale is a great idea

But again, paying too much for heimish. You know who also has everything a canteen needs? Costco! Why buy heimish chips when there are 3 brands at costco that are perfect, and cheaper? My kids school offers parents cases of snack foods at wholesale prices and use it as a fundraiser opportunity for PTA. Parents pay $.20 a bag. Somehow the PTA manages to also earn money in this. Camps also do this. Unless heimish hechshers are required by the camp, go for cheaper and wholesale!

amother

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 3:16 pm

watergirl wrote:

Shoprite?

Out of curiosity, why is he spending full retail price on food? Is he then hiking the price up even MORE when he sells it at camp to make a profit? Could this be part of the reason he made so little last summer? Why isn't he going to a wholesale store to shop for products to sell? Even if there is no costco (or the like) near him, maybe it would be more worth his while to find other camps in the area to coop with and place an order with a coke or pepsi vendor and have it delivered to one location and divvy up the cans, etc.

Soda cans are cheaper at shoprite than buying directly from vendors.
Not sure if Pepsi or Coca Cola or both.
Definitely at least one of them.

amother

Navy

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 3:44 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Soda cans are cheaper at shoprite than buying directly from vendors.
Not sure if Pepsi or Coca Cola or both.
Definitely at least one of them.

I highly doubt that.

So I looked it up. On sale, Shop Rite wants 37 cents a can. BUT its a limit of 48 cans. Above that, its 54 cents a can.

Checking a random soda distributor, its 41 cents a can, all day, every day, as much as you want.

That's a big difference.

amother

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 4:03 pm

amother [ Navy ] wrote:

I trust that my son shopped around.
He has a good business sense.

Regardless, prices change and good deals on cans can be found in the summer.

amother

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 4:22 pm

amother [ Ecru ] wrote:

If you're in the NY/NJ area, I would say something. This community does not expect 19 yr old boys to be adults. They barely expect married 22 yr olds to grow up. So go for it. Say whatever you want.

However, bear in mind that if your son is happy doing the work, and likes the environment, then it may be a good place for him. Its hard to find things to do for older teens in the yeshivish circles, so it might be worthwhile. But speaking up can possibly get him better terms.

I'm sorry. Sometimes the level of disparity in incomes for camp jobs is sickening. The way they work the girls is stomach-turning. I understand the way you feel. Its so hard to balance the going with the community expectations and speaking up about ridiculousness.

Yes, this.
My son is pretty sheltered and trusting of adults.
For those assuming he takes part in activities-this is a low-budget yeshivish camp with the daily schedule mostly consisting of learning, aside from swimming (which my son does not participate in).
I believe there are only 1-2 trips all summer.

notshanarishona

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 4:37 pm

Almost all sleep camps take advantage of their single staff. Personally I think it's disgusting but your son needs to make the choice if it's worth it for him to go and otherwise find a different job. I never understood how they get girls on waiting lists to pay to work but it's all about supply and demand and since all the camps do it they can get away with it.
As a teen , I worked in bungalow colony day camp and made 3-4 x as much as my friends who worked in sleep away camps .

amother

Brown

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 5:04 pm

SuperWify wrote:

Stop calling the camp guy a “Rabbi” from your side of story he doesn’t seem to deserve the title.

I definitely would not let my child work there but if he insists I’d give this guy a price of my mind!

Who are you to decide who deserves title of rabbi? Do you know him? Do you know op? Are you assuming?

BatyaEsther

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 5:30 pm

Maybe I live in a different world, but I would think that either he is an employee of the camp, does not pay them anything, they control the inventory, what and where it is purchased, cost to campers, payment for product.... and they pay him a set salary
OR
He rents the space (and pays room and board) but he determines the inventory/suppliers/cost....and payment is directly to him.

The camp should not be able to have it both ways. Either he works for the camp and they pay his a agreed upon salary and do not charge him to be there, or if you open a store, you pay rent, but what you do there-as long as it is legal and zoned for such, is your business (not withstanding the Vaad and undercutting the competition/opening in direct competition...) the only problem I see with the store option and independents is needing to be fair to parents, that prices need to be with in the scope of customary and reasonable- you can't charge the kids, who have no other options, $8 fo a soda because that would just be wrong.

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 5:41 pm

Don’t send a letter. If your son feels exploited, coach him through the process of renegotiating. Nineteen isn’t quite an adult, but it is the time to learn to be one. After a certain point, direct parental involvement is not appropriate and might even backfire.

Is he being exploited? He is paying less than $225/week for room and board, presumably in a country setting somewhere. Not bad. I’m not familiar with running a camp canteen, and I agree with the suggestion above to contact other canteen managers to learn how it’s done elsewhere. To me, it seems that the fee should include not just the canteen space but the rights to the business, and he should keep all the records himself. If the camp is running the canteen, he shouldn’t pay to work. But if he agreed to do it this way...well, he agreed to it. He is gaining good experience with supply management, and he can build on that in the future with either a more conventional managerial job or a truly independent business.

The wear and tear on his clothing is irrelevant. That would happen wherever he works in that type of setting. It’s part of the cost of going to work. I don’t expect anyone to wear their best things at a summer camp job.

ETA: Almost forgot one of the most important parts. Waiting six months to be paid is not ok. Please advise your son to get the terms in writing. He should insist on a reasonable schedule.

amother

Gold

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 6:13 pm

Okay let me get this straight.

He is paying rent to sell inventory that belongs to his landlord?

Give me a break. He's an employee of the camp. There is no room in this picture for a 'rent' payment.

(What BatyaEsther said)

Yes he's been taken advantage of. The arrangement doesn't make any sense - I can see that as someone out of my teen years - not sure a teen could clearly see that.

amother

Dodgerblue

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 7:09 pm

amother [ Navy ] wrote:

It's true.

I am involved in one of these kind of canteens. Shop rite is cheaper than wholesale. Probably because it's upstate, but also probably because of the small quantities. As they're only buying for a few weeks.

amother

Pewter

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 7:10 pm

This is an interesting thread for me to read bc I did exactly the same job the summer I was out of seminary. I totally ran canteen but only had to pay $500 or something to rent it. I was considered staff so didn't have to pay for room/board/food etc like a camper.

I placed wholesale orders before camp and worked like a dog - lots of physical labor - laying out all my own money, actually I had to borrow bc no way I had that much when I was a sem girl. I forget exact numbers but I think everything cost me at least a good few thousand in inventory (maybe 10k?) and I turned a profit of about 5-6k. I made a TON of money by being very meticulous and business minded and calculating every penny.

(btw, soda is way more expensive when ordering straight from both Coke and Pepsi, and I ran around on staff days out to Walgreens, CVS etc buying their soda on sale like when they do 3 packs for $10, I would buy the limit and get all my friends to do it for me lol.)

The camp owners treated me like a business, ie they made an account with me and had to buy their bill, and I had to pay if I took something from the kitchen like milk to make smoothies. Any profit I made, or any losses, would have been totally mine.

If your son is 19, you can't speak up for him, especially if he knows what he's getting himself into and is willingly returning. But you can def explain to him that the job is worth more (it is SO physical. Unpacking boxes, stacking shelves, filling buckets, running around during rest hour, cleaning up for the rest of the day, it's not easy). Feel free to show him this post. His position (I can't say if he himself, without knowing everything) is definitely being taken advantage of. But you know what, he's 19, same age I must have been. He's old enough to either suck it up or speak up.