Would you say something?-son being taken advantage of

Log in / Sign Up

List of Forums + New Post Recipe Box Usergroups Following My Posts Bookmarks

Private Messages Advanced Search Rules New User Guide FAQ Advertise Contact Us

Forum -> Parenting our children -> Teenagers and Older children

Previous 1 2 3 4 Next

View latest: 24h 48h 72h

ectomorph

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 7:54 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

I don't understand why anyone would want to work like a slave for less than minimum wage. summer jobs that scarce? Surely there must be better ways to earn money, that don't involve dealing with camps.

I think a lot of posters here are clearly unfamiliar with this culture.

As a teen, I only wanted to be in a super frum and fun environment. The going rate for a 13 year old at the time being assistant counselor was 200 dollars a month. Plus you go on trips, eat the food etc. I enjoyed it a lot. I think I maxed out at 400 a month.

It's actually a bit competitive to get these jobs.

amother

Gold

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 8:12 pm

ectomorph wrote:

This actually makes sense to me. I earned 200 a month working 9-5 as a teen.

The responsibility difference between being a 13 year old assistant counselor and running all aspects of a canteen are significant.

ectomorph

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 8:15 pm

amother [ Gold ] wrote:

The responsibility difference between being a 13 year old assistant counselor and running all aspects of a canteen are significant.

Right, but my point is that within the culture it makes sense.

Camp jobs aren't about earning money in this culture. They're about staying busy constructively. If her son leaves, most likely he'll be replaced within a day.

If she wants her son to earn money, he shouldn't have a camp job

ectomorph

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 8:16 pm

Like I was saying, I maxed out at 400 a month at 17. When I was 18, I switched to a real job.

gumby

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 8:27 pm

I would have your son make some phone calls to the other canteen heads. As someone mentioned canteen head is considered a great job in these camps and I’m sure the young men will be willing to tell your son the arrangements they made with their specific camps. If it is similar to your son’s arrangement then leave it be, if not have your son call the rabbi and tell him in camp x and camp y they do it like this and it is only right that your camp does it similarly .
Good luck

amother

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 8:32 pm

amother [ Pewter ] wrote:

This is an interesting thread for me to read bc I did exactly the same job the summer I was out of seminary. I totally ran canteen but only had to pay $500 or something to rent it. I was considered staff so didn't have to pay for room/board/food etc like a camper.

I placed wholesale orders before camp and worked like a dog - lots of physical labor - laying out all my own money, actually I had to borrow bc no way I had that much when I was a sem girl. I forget exact numbers but I think everything cost me at least a good few thousand in inventory (maybe 10k?) and I turned a profit of about 5-6k. I made a TON of money by being very meticulous and business minded and calculating every penny.

(btw, soda is way more expensive when ordering straight from both Coke and Pepsi, and I ran around on staff days out to Walgreens, CVS etc buying their soda on sale like when they do 3 packs for $10, I would buy the limit and get all my friends to do it for me lol.)

The camp owners treated me like a business, ie they made an account with me and had to buy their bill, and I had to pay if I took something from the kitchen like milk to make smoothies. Any profit I made, or any losses, would have been totally mine.

If your son is 19, you can't speak up for him, especially if he knows what he's getting himself into and is willingly returning. But you can def explain to him that the job is worth more (it is SO physical. Unpacking boxes, stacking shelves, filling buckets, running around during rest hour, cleaning up for the rest of the day, it's not easy). Feel free to show him this post. His position (I can't say if he himself, without knowing everything) is definitely being taken advantage of. But you know what, he's 19, same age I must have been. He's old enough to either suck it up or speak up.

Yeah, you get it-it’s a physically intensive job.

And it’s a full service canteen-milchigs in earlier hours of day with omelettes etc.. and fleishigs in evenings.
Hotdogs, chicken sandwiches, hamburgers with all the works.

My son takes his job very seriously and works hard to please the hungry boys!

amother

Gold

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 8:39 pm

ectomorph wrote:

There is no job (as an employee) that requires a person to pay rent.

There should be a lot more transparency here.

Like: I'll pay you $800 for the summer - room and board are on us - and if you able to spend less than the food purchases budget of X - you can keep 50% of the savings.

amother

Dodgerblue

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 8:52 pm

amother [ Gold ] wrote:

He's not an employee.

He rents the building, and is free to use it as he wishes. It's on him to figure out a way to make a profit. Like any businessman, if he sees that the profit is too small maybe he should raise his prices. Or negotiate better terms for rent, etc.

Though I agree there should perhaps have been more transparency going in.

amother

Gold

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 8:55 pm

amother [ Dodgerblue ] wrote:

He buys the inventory with his boss' money. That's an employee. The rent is meaningless.

amother

Dodgerblue

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 8:57 pm

amother [ Gold ] wrote:

He buys the inventory with his bosses money. That's an employee. The rent is meaningless.

He borrows the money from the owner. And doesn't even have to pay interest.

amother

Gold

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 9:00 pm

amother [ Dodgerblue ] wrote:

He borrows the money from the owner. And doesn't even have to pay interest.

That doesn't appear to be the arrangement - but that could work. Of course he would need to be the one keeping the books and be allowed to set prices.

flmommy

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 9:05 pm

If the letter isn’t well received then what would your son do? I agree with everything you wrote but maybe a better choice would be for your son (with your help if need be) writes a litter simply stating how hard he works and can he get more $?

amother

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 9:35 pm

amother [ Dodgerblue ] wrote:

He borrows the money from the owner. And doesn't even have to pay interest.

Not exactly.

My son did use some of his own money for the initial purchases.

And the campers prepay for the canteen cards so the camp has some of the campers' funds at the start of the camp season to pay the vendors for purchases.

"Canteen cards" are consistently being refilled and so the camp essentially uses the campers' funds to pay the vendors.

dankbar

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 10:10 pm

camp staff usually gets paid minimal salary. I never heard that staff members have to pay for camp or rent though.

I was a waitress in camp & also did mike office for half a summer ( over 20 years ago).

I dont remember getting paid more than $200 for entire summer. Also only got a minimal amount from summer youth program & camp kept the rest, but I didnt go to camp for the money.

The other jobs that were part of my obligation werent paid jobs. Like there was a rotation to do the activities with different bunks & also to be a night OD for different bunks, all on their call ( momentarily)

amother

Gold

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 10:16 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

If your son wanted access to some of the money from the canteen cards (its his money) - can he get it? Or only to make purchases for the camp.

amother

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 10:52 pm

amother [ Gold ] wrote:

If your son wanted access to some of the money from the canteen cards (its his money) - can he get it? Or only to make purchases for the camp.

No, the camp pays the vendors directly.

amother

Gold

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 11:12 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

No, the camp pays the vendors directly.

Right. He has no access to his revenue - he doesn't pay vendors.

He's an employee of the camp. How much do you think he should be getting paid? (keeping in mind the camp is providing food and shelter).

amother

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 11:28 pm

amother [ Gold ] wrote:

His responsibilities are more than that of an average camp employee.
He is in more of a managerial position.
And he is older than an average camper.

Do you expect that an adult camp staff member in a managerial/supervisory position earns the same compensation as a young staffer with less responsibilities?

And if he is considered an employee then why is he obligated to pay $3000 rent and have to wait until after the summer to ascertain IF and how much money he will earn?

amother

Burlywood

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 11:47 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

I don't understand why anyone would want to work like a slave for less than minimum wage. Are summer jobs that scarce? Surely there must be better ways to earn money, that don't involve dealing with camps.

Because it's not solely about making money. At that age, for most kids in this type of setup, it's about having a fun summer with friends and hopefully coming away with some cash at the end.

yerushamama

Mon, Jun 17 2019, 11:57 pm

My biggest issues would be the rent and late payment. (paying for room and board is reasonable.) It sounds like he is being hired to manage the canteen. Managers don't rent the space from the owner! OTOH, I think that if you speak to the camp, you will be undermining the point you are trying to make to them - that he is a responsible adult and deserves better treatment. Help him advocate for himself to get better terms.

Page 3 of 4

Previous 1 2 3 4 Next