How do I find a mentor in my Judaism

amother

Mauve

Wed, Jun 19 2019, 11:56 am

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

Avraham Avinu started with no assumptions about monotheism or an existing God. He saw a magnificent world - "the known" - and concluded that it must have One Creator - which was for him "the unknown."
That same process of discovery can still happen today, without prior assumptions about God or a desire to prove God exists.

Well then I guess he wasn’t kind enough to share that process with us. Are you? Share it please.

IrenaFr

Wed, Jun 19 2019, 12:00 pm

sneakermom wrote:

I don’t know. You’re sure you’re not a chassid? Your explanation sounds like chassidus:)

My question to you though is how did you deduce that there’s one creator of the energy that is being recreated constantly?

And how did it lead you to Judaism specifically?

I’m asking because my daughter is questioning things lately and she’s a real thinker. My “feely” answers don’t mean anything to her.

Because that what the scientist claim that the energy has only one source Smile

And that the particles of energy are recreated constantly. That I heard in another lecture, can’t find now . I do believe them Smile

For me - I came from the new age Smile

So that this source is intelligent and it’s the only Love. But then things happened (I don’t want to disclose the details) that led me to conclusion that we need not only Love but Rules . And that brought me to the Torah . And analysis of history of human kind, also books of Jonathan Sacks why the rules and rituals are needed and important. And so I do believe that that the intellect that creates all this energy gave the Jews Torah to be an example for human kind how to build a thriving society. And the prove that those rules are working we can see after thousands of years in Jewish history .

TranquilityAndPeace

Wed, Jun 19 2019, 12:08 pm

Regarding Hashem's attention span.

I once saw a YouTube video of an Israeli who had a near death experience when he OD'ed on drugs and was in a can in Manhattan.

As the taxi drove, he was 20 meters above the taxi. In NYC, many roads take you under large buildings. He said that he went through huge buildings and as he did so, he felt all the emotions and knew the entire lives of all the people he had gone "through".

He was dating a woman years later when they were both partially frum. The woman said that she understands that Hashem has lists of all humans. But how can he truly know and deeply care for and listen to billions of people? He probably just pays attending to the famous ones.

Then the guy told her about his NDE, and how he had felt all the feelings and known all the details of all the lives of thousands of people in just a few seconds. And that helped her make peace with the concept that Hashem is all knowing and always listening to us.

IrenaFr

Wed, Jun 19 2019, 12:11 pm

I also want to add - I read the book that tried to proof that Torah was written by people and other sources. I don’t buy them . I don’t believe that human mind can create such a book and put all those curses that came true eventually for the Jews . Like who in the right mind could promise people living an their country that they will be exiled and dispersed all over the world ? I don’t believe that people would think even about it .

amother

Seashell

Wed, Jun 19 2019, 12:24 pm

amother [ Mauve ] wrote:

Well then I guess he wasn’t kind enough to share that process with us. Are you? Share it please.

I believe. I already explained my thought processes and beliefs, which you considered circular thinking. Whatever I'll add is coming from a place of belief, so I don't think you'll accept that and am not sure what else you want me to add.
I actually think that the fact that such a magnificent, brilliant world exists, with all the science that IrenaFr explained and much more, and there CAN exist non-believers who think all this evolved on it's own, is one of the most incredible proofs of a Creator Whose wisdom we cannot fathom.

amother

Mauve

Wed, Jun 19 2019, 12:38 pm

Confirmation bias is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms one's preexisting beliefs or hypotheses.[1] It is a type of cognitive bias and a systematic error of inductive reasoning. People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way. The effect is stronger for desired outcomes, emotionally charged issues, and for deeply entrenched-beliefs.

People also tend to interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing position. Biased search, interpretation and memory have been invoked to explain attitude polarization (when a disagreement becomes more extreme even though the different parties are exposed to the same evidence), belief perseverance (when beliefs persist after the evidence for them is shown to be false), the irrational primacy effect (a greater reliance on information encountered early in a series) and illusory correlation (when people falsely perceive an association between two events or situations)

IrenaFr

Wed, Jun 19 2019, 4:22 pm

TranquilityAndPeace wrote:

Regarding Hashem's attention span.

I once saw a YouTube video of an Israeli who had a near death experience when he OD'ed on drugs and was in a can in Manhattan.
Then the guy told her about his NDE, and how he had felt all the feelings and known all the details of all the lives of thousands of people in just a few seconds. And that helped her make peace with the concept that Hashem is all knowing and always listening to us.

Hashem creates and recreates every particle in our universe all the time and he will suddenly forgets about someone Smile

))) Like people or things usually suddenly disappear without any trace in from of our eyes Smile

)) Oops , Hashem forgot about couple of these atoms Smile

))))

imorethanamother

Wed, Jun 19 2019, 5:37 pm

amother [ Mauve ] wrote:

In matters pertaining to philosophy, thought, and belief, there is literally no real way to conduct a truly scientific-based approach to an answer without some kind of confirmation bias. (and, one can argue, that many, many theories in science were first formulated and then proven with confirmation bias). Also, supposing that God is a sentient being with choice, there is no way to prove His existence without His cooperation.

amother

Green

Wed, Jun 19 2019, 8:14 pm

OP, your quest, feelings and challenges in faith are valid. You are clearly a thinking person. Your age and life situation are ripe for your questions, and it's not uncommon at all. Thank you for voicing them. The more authenticity we share, the better to shine light for others on their journey.
I think your honesty, bravery and inquisitiveness will stand you in good stead.

(As a side note, I didn't know that about the similarity between Jewish prayer and prayer in other eastern religions. That is fascinating. Where can I find out more about this?)

Prayer is completely personal. For me, it's about the energy I put into it. I think faith is about that as well. Gd doesnt need my prayers. I need them. I've also learned, in matters of faith, to take what works for me and leave the rest. Perhaps I'll get back to it someday, but for now, it may need to be set aside.

Most "proofs" of Gd are going to have logical fallacies. This may be due to the limited nature of the person explaining the proof, the person listening to it, or the proof itself. Aish has these awesome seminars about faith and Gd that draw in some people and drive others away. Accept that no rabbi or rebbetzin will have your answers. You're going to have to do ALL the work, to ask lots of people, read lots of books and for a long time. Perhaps your whole life.

As others said up-thread, in the end, its about faith and belief. No one says this, but for some, it's also about accepting agnosticism. There's more to unpack in these questions than one person's capacity to understand, answer or even outline the problem.

LadyBee

Wed, Jun 19 2019, 8:28 pm

Just want to encourage you. Please know that this is not something to be embarrassed about. As we learn and grow and experience and become, often things we held to and swallowed without asking are challenged. Sometimes to the point of being a bit scary. It is ok. That is when we have to take a deep breath. I am in a similar spot as I am sure others here are too. I promise you it is ok. When we are stripped down, that is a place of emptiness from which HaShem helps us regroup and rebuild. From here, we can truly know HaShem and own being observant women. It is no longer by rote. It is ours. That is an amazing place to be. Finding a mentor who isn't scared or threatened by our struggle and questions, now there is a challenge. For myself, I have a few rabbis I trust that I go to for specific issues. The other issues, like you, I am looking for answers and mentors. I just learned hitbodedut is a lifeline and just being willing to be quiet and listen and observe, often the answers needed come in unexpected places. Hatzlacha as you walk through this time and discover inner dimensions of your neshama that you never knew were there and begin to see how your observance of Torah and mitzvot becomes real and alive to you in ways they weren't before. It takes time and trusting HaShem as He walks you through the process. It is beautiful, though often harrowing. Remember, you are not alone.

amother

Lemon

Wed, Jun 19 2019, 10:00 pm

I'm a giyores and spent years searching for the emes, by digging through the historical record, trying out a lot of different ways of serving G-d, and asking lots of wise people. I think it's valuable to spend time reading and thinking and researching. You can find people who can answer your questions, but will it really be real for you until you've put in the time yourself to really think things through and weigh the arguments. Also I found that everyone answers you in their own way, the way that makes sense to them, which may not be what your neshama needs to hear. The answers you work hard to get yourself (through reading, shiurim, thinking), stick better. Also that way you avoid the negative impact of putting your hope in people who are well known for helping people with emunah questions, but who end up disappointing you by giving childish simplistic answers to unanswerable questions. If you do ask people make sure they're people who are comfortable with the reality that so much is unknowable and are happy to live in the beauty of this mystery.

I think you should skip formal tefillos for now and talk in your own words to Hashem and ask if He's real He should please help you understand and connect.

I'm envious of you that you're doing this work at a time when there are so many shiurim and resources online! Things would have gone a lot quicker and easier for me if I hadn't been doing my searching in the 90's!

amother

Aqua

Wed, Jun 19 2019, 11:24 pm

amother [ Mauve ] wrote:

I love this thread. I love how respectful we all are. I am agnostic. I’m also fully observant. And also deeply spiritual.
Life is too short for me to deny any part of myself, at least to my own mind and maybe some people I trust.

So interesting. I'm afraid to officially label myself as agnostic. I wonder if in a way we are all agnostic. On one hand we say there is no proof, but we believe anyway. Fine, but once we concede we have no proof and we can no longer be 100% sure. If we are not 100% sure, isn't that agnostic?

amother

Mauve

Wed, Jun 19 2019, 11:44 pm

amother [ Aqua ] wrote:

I guess people “choose to believe” with the circular reasoning of that’s what they’re supposed to be doing or some such thing. I don’t get it. I’m wired to seek the truth. And since I realized that the ultimate truth either doesn’t exist or no one knows it, my truth now is that I don’t know.
Which is really cool because maybe one day I’ll found out. Maybe one day I’ll be convinced. I’m open to all sides.
This is something I try to nurture in my kids, intellectual curiosity. I don’t shut down their questions. Sometimes I say honestly that I don’t know. That maybe when they’re older they will figure it out and then they could tell me.

amother

Pewter

Thu, Jun 20 2019, 1:43 am

Sounds like a question for Manis Friedman.

For me, it wouldn't make sense if G-d didn't exist. Who other than G-d can create the world? Having a child would be impossible without G-d involved. It's only logical that there is a G-d in this world.

You should know that there are answers available, you just need to find them. One thing about learning about these topics is that it's not an open-shut discussion. A question leads to an answer which leads to more questions. It's really amazing. I found learning Chabad Chassidus (Chabad is an acronym for Chochma, Bina and Daas - wisdom, understanding and knowledge. They focus on understanding and knowing who and what G-d is - as opposed to just belief) to be so helpful in my understanding of G-d and the world. It's an endless fascinating journey of discovery that never ends. There is nothing to be embarassed about having questions. Everyone has room to grow at their level. Nobody knows all the answers. Even Moshe Rabeinu didn't have access to the 50th gate of understanding.

You're on the right track. Enjoy the journey.

PinkFridge

Thu, Jun 20 2019, 8:43 am

amother [ Lemon ] wrote:

I think you should skip formal tefillos for now and talk in your own words to Hashem and ask if He's real He should please help you understand and connect.

Very thoughtful post.
I just want to say I was one of the people who liked the pp about everyone struggling with tefillah. Not necessarily everyone all the time 24/7 but we all have our moments.

I love advice that steers a person to keeping the channels open and not to give up on communicating with Hashem. I do want to add that there is value in the formal tefillos, even if perfunctory. One might want to say less, but I would still say something. I heard a moshol of a village that had to wait till the master craftsman clockmaker visited to have their timepieces repaired. It was important to keep winding the malfunctioning piece so the mechanism wouldn't atrophy.

This dovetails with a vort I love, on the words "al levavecha" in Shema. It doesn't say IN your hearts but ON your hearts. Because there are times when all the good words in the world won't penetrate. They won't go into our heart. But if we make room for them to go on our heart, then when the time comes that we'll be receptive, even just a crack, the words will fall in and healthily flood our hearts.

amother

Aqua

Thu, Jun 20 2019, 9:19 am

amother [ Pewter ] wrote:

I sort of agree with what your saying regarding the world is so complex that it had to be designed and come from someone. I never liked that answer because I feel it just leads to the next and possibly bigger question- where did hashem come from? Hashem is even more complex than the world he created. To that we have to resort to that hashem is not understandable and we don't have all the answers. Fine, but a little unsatisfying for me. In theory, I could just say the same about where did the world come from? That we don't understand or have all the answers.

IrenaFr

Thu, Jun 20 2019, 10:12 am

imorethanamother wrote:

Also, supposing that God is a sentient being with choice, there is no way to prove His existence without His cooperation.

And He is not cooperating!
I loved this lecture https://www.ted.com/talks/harr.....ysics

Physicists now can’t explain anything for sure . They (mostly atheists) want to prove that our universe was created by chance and only one of the multiple universes but they can’t Smile

They can’t prove or disprove anything.
For me it’s the proof of a creator that doesn’t want us to discover everything, that wants to remain hidden for now, but for them it’s not . So it’s all for us to choose.