Why do you want women in a Magazine

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Why do you want women in magazines

For inspirational reasons (Role Models)

20%

[ 33 ]

I believe equal for men and women

21%

[ 35 ]

Only little girls

15%

[ 24 ]

It's not a halacha, I don't believe in Chumros

42%

[ 68 ]

Total Votes : 160

Lesia

Fri, Jun 21 2019, 7:04 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

She's not putting on an act at all! It's a sensitivity to other poskim, that's all. Any woman who speaks for certain organizations has to follow their guidelines. It doesn't mean they're not authentic.

She only dresses like that for Chassidish events? Your post implied that she always lectures dressed as a Chassidish woman, no matter the venue.

singleagain

Fri, Jun 21 2019, 7:05 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

But imagine if you see this person suddenly elsewhere in a longer sheital...? Unless she always wears short?

Mommyg8

Fri, Jun 21 2019, 7:07 pm

singleagain wrote:

But imagine if you see this person suddenly elsewhere in a longer sheital...? Unless she always wears short?

Why would that be a problem? Most people have more than one shaitel.

Mommyg8

Fri, Jun 21 2019, 7:09 pm

Lesia wrote:

She only dresses like that for Chassidish events? Your post implied that she always lectures dressed as a Chassidish woman, no matter the venue.

Lots of events have both litvish and Chassidish women. I think it's respectful to follow the most machmir guidelines so that everyone will feel comfortable.

Lesia

Fri, Jun 21 2019, 7:10 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

Lots of events have both litvish and Chassidish women. I think it's respectful to follow the most machmir guidelines so that everyone will feel comfortable.

I call that pandering, not respectful.
But that’s just my opinion.

singleagain

Fri, Jun 21 2019, 7:15 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

Why would that be a problem? Most people have more than one shaitel.

I wasn't thinking a problem.. more like a.. confusion.

Like when you see your teacher out of school for the first time.

If someone is always always a certain way then suddenly not... It's odd.

singleagain

Fri, Jun 21 2019, 7:15 pm

Lesia wrote:

I call that pandering, not respectful.
But that’s just my opinion.

Yes. I agree.. it's pandering.

amother

Sienna

Fri, Jun 21 2019, 7:31 pm

amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:

So why don't you tell people you're the author?

People don’t assume I am, so they don’t ask. And I don’t walk up to everyone I meet and say “hi! I’m so-and-do, author of (this weekly serial) in (this magazine)!” When people ask, I say yes.

When people find out it’s me, they actually seem much more interested in me and the serial itself. That’s the nature of putting a face to a name.

werty

Sat, Jun 22 2019, 6:25 pm

I always understood the exclusion of pictures as an easy way of keeping out non tznius pictures. Its hard to start paskening every dumb picture so they just keep it all out.

amother

Scarlet

Sat, Jun 22 2019, 10:37 pm

amother [ Sienna ] wrote:

I misunderstood your post. I thought you were saying that you prefer to remain anonymous. I've occasionally published in some of the frum magazines under a pseudonym. The last time, I told no one, not even dh. That was my choice though.

As a side point, I think writers, and creatives in general have a hard time with self-promotion. People in other areas have no trouble introducing themselves and mentioning, for instance, that they're a real estate broker / attorney / sheitel macher / math teacher etc.

PinkFridge

Sun, Jun 23 2019, 8:18 am

amother [ Sienna ] wrote:

The introduction of the Op-Ed in major newspapers wasn't to make a completely agreeable and platonic statement that the world could agree with. It was to spark you to read a point of view, agree, disagree, and let bygones be bygones. Let other people live instead of censoring them to death.

What goes on in the outside world trickles down to us.
In the outside world, political correctness now dictates that offending opposing views can't be aired. There has to be a safe bubble. There is no discussion, just attacking.

PinkFridge

Sun, Jun 23 2019, 8:19 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

I know someone who speaks publicly. She told me that she wears a short shaitel when she speaks because she is lecturing to many types of women, and she was told that she should follow the Chassidish poskim (which are the most machmir in this area) so that every type of women should feel comfortable coming to her lectures.

Yes, a Rabannit has a responsibility as a role model for frum women. If she can't follow a magazines guidelines as per tznius - not for always, just for a picture - then what kind of Rabbanit is she? JMHO.

And what if she's following her moreh derech?

And why should she wear a sheitel at all? Aren't there poskim of large populations who say it's not preferable? Oh wait. There's also Lubavitch. They have pretty large numbers are say sheitels ARE the most tzniusdik way to go.

What if her skirts are too long by some standards? Because I for one will NOT wear the skirts I see everyone wearing because I can't sit/lean over/reach for something comfortably in them.

PinkFridge

Sun, Jun 23 2019, 8:23 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

Lots of events have both litvish and Chassidish women. I think it's respectful to follow the most machmir guidelines so that everyone will feel comfortable.

So why not follow the most machmir guidelines? The ones that say that men can look at a woman and not gaze so don't publish the pictures? (Just playing devil's advocate.)

PinkFridge

Sun, Jun 23 2019, 8:24 am

singleagain wrote:

I wasn't thinking a problem.. more like a.. confusion.

Like when you see your teacher out of school for the first time.

If someone is always always a certain way then suddenly not... It's odd.

Right. It's one thing if you see a teacher in casual clothes, I.e snood, biz skirt, etc. vs. her professional clothes. This is something else.

This might segue into, ok, so we'll photoshop the pictures to make them work. That to me is even more offensive than not publishing the pic at all.

dancingqueen

Sun, Jun 23 2019, 8:36 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

This is called circular reasoning. If you define the oppression of women as violence against women, then obviously the countries that oppress women the most will have the highest rate of violence. Because of how you just defined violence.

The WHO studied rates of domestic violence in different countries. They obviously defined domestic violence differently than you do. I'm going with their definition, as theirs seems to be the actual scientific one.

No. The three items that I listed are clear examples of violence against women. Cutting off a woman’s clit0ris, killing her if she is raped, and beating her are examples of violence. By ANY definition. And yes domestic violence is one example of violence against women. It’s not that complicated.

Mommyg8

Sun, Jun 23 2019, 10:56 am

dancingqueen wrote:

As I said, the WHO did a study and defined the meaning of violence against women.

FGM I understand is done in Africa as well, though I'm not googling it to get more information (I don't want it in my browser). So it's not only done in Arab countries, and not related necessarily to religious extremism. In any case, they themselves don't consider it violence against women, and unfortunately, it is actually the women themselves who do it. When you define violence against women to include this, you're going down a slippery slope because there are those in America who will say that circumcision is violence against men (I'm not saying it is, and I'm not comparing the two, I'm just saying what people can say.) Of course it's awful and terrible, but so is war. And that's violence against men.

Killing a women if she is raped - well, did you research the violence against women in other countries? In China, Pearl Buck related that all the women she knew admitted to killing at least one girl baby. Nowadays, they can do it in utero thanks to our wonderful technology, but there are still plenty of unwanted baby girls who are left to die (re. The Bamboo Cradle). Also in China they would bind women's feet - research it. It was an awful process.

In India, the violence against women continues until today. Baby girls are left to die, unless some kind woman gathers them up in her orphanage, they are culturally expected to harlot themselves for money (it's part of their culture and religion).

I'm not even going to get started on the US...

So it's not clear that the level of violence is highest against Muslim women.

Mommyg8

Sun, Jun 23 2019, 11:02 am

PinkFridge wrote:

Like I said, headshots only. Very frum Chassidim don't read English alltogether, so we don't have to worry about them.

I am sorry I put this women's story on a public forum. I'm going to erase it.

But even so, I think it perfectly OK for a magazine to have standards. This is the standards of our magazine because we don't want to offend anyone - hair covered - or the picture is not printed altogether. Not every picture needs to be printed, so if the woman doesn't want her picture in the magazine, or if the magazine feels that that is not up to their standards... editorial boards of magazines are not transparent. They can do whatever they want and they don't have to excuse it.

amother

Pink

Sun, Jun 23 2019, 11:10 am

A lot of countries in Africa are actually predominantly Muslim. Probably most, in fact.

Mommyg8

Sun, Jun 23 2019, 11:10 am

PinkFridge wrote:

So why not follow the most machmir guidelines? The ones that say that men can look at a woman and not gaze so don't publish the pictures? (Just playing devil's advocate.)

But what about the chumrah of darchei sholom? Kovod Habriyos? Maybe when you have two conflicting chumras one overrides the other? Wink

In any case, I'm backing off from my position. I spoke to some people IRL about this topic, and I have found that they have the same misgivings of the women on this thread - that this is a slippery slope and if they start printing pictures of Hilary Clinton and Niki Haley and old Rebbetzin's, soon they're going to be printing pictures of n*ked women. Literally, that's what I'm hearing. And to me, this means that we don't really trust our magazines to do what's right, and although I am very sad that this the case, they are probably correct and I'm just too idealistic.

Personally, this is not the only problem I have with these magazines, and these kind of conversations are pushing me completely away from them. At this point I rarely buy them, and after this conversation I think I might stop altogether. So maybe I'm the only person in the universe who thinks the way I do, so be it. I do me, you do you Wink

Mommyg8

Sun, Jun 23 2019, 11:17 am

amother [ Pink ] wrote:

A lot of countries in Africa are actually predominantly Muslim. Probably most, in fact.

So prove to me that FGM is directly related to Muslim extremism. I'm not looking it up - I'm letting you do the research.

This is a truly awful thing to do, but like I said, there is a movement in America that feels that circumcision is violence against men. So when you make something a religious thing, it's a bit more complicated to define it as violence against women. Especially as we are religious.

Is it violence against women to not allow them to drive? Again, it depends on how you define violence. And if you think about it, there has been quite a bit of religious wars, killing - is religion itself linked with violence?

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