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Why do you want women in a Magazine
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Poll

Why do you want women in magazines
For inspirational reasons (Role Models)
 20%  [ 33 ]
I believe equal for men and women
 21%  [ 34 ]
Only little girls
 15%  [ 24 ]
It's not a halacha, I don't believe in Chumros
 42%  [ 68 ]
Total Votes : 159


farm




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 10:15 pm
The Circle is obviously not for my family- the ads always show only boys reading it and I have boy and girl readers and want my money’s worth.
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ccwife




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 12:25 am
Mommyg8 wrote:
I dont understand - why does he not look at women at all? There's no issur.

Second, why do you have so little faith in the editorial boards of these magazines? You trust them to filter out bad hashkafas and other things that are against halacha - why do you not trust them in this area?

You can easily make guidelines that will work for almost everybody - let's see... headshots only, no heavy makeup. See? Easy as pie.

I also want to point out something you might have forgotten- the tznius level 50 years ago here in America was quite bad, actually.

And the concept of photo shop exists. Let's use it to make women tznius rather than photo shopping women out altogether.


Sorry for not responding earlier. Been busy! Of course my husband sees and interacts with women! But if he had two paths to take and he knew one had women on it and one didn't he would go on the one without women. And if he had 2 magazines to choose from he'd choose the one where there'd be no pictures of them. If there was a headshot of a gorgeous 25 year old blonde author next to her article he would stop reading Mishpacha and learn. But Mishpacha doesn't want to lose him as a reader because believe me it's not just him, its many many men. So why would they? What would be pushing them to loose such a big audience?

As a side note I do think the womens magazines should have tznius pictures of girls.
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Mommyg8




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 1:08 am
ccwife wrote:
Sorry for not responding earlier. Been busy! Of course my husband sees and interacts with women! But if he had two paths to take and he knew one had women on it and one didn't he would go on the one without women. And if he had 2 magazines to choose from he'd choose the one where there'd be no pictures of them. If there was a headshot of a gorgeous 25 year old blonde author next to her article he would stop reading Mishpacha and learn. But Mishpacha doesn't want to lose him as a reader because believe me it's not just him, its many many men. So why would they? What would be pushing them to loose such a big audience?

As a side note I do think the womens magazines should have tznius pictures of girls.


I originally said that the magazines should use their discretion (using headshots only, blurred pictures, or even drawings) but first, I'm starting to believe that the magazines don't HAVE discretion, and second, some here think that would be pandering. Well, personally I think it's WAAY more pandering to have no pictures at all, but what do I know... I'm outvoted.

I have just one question - not to you, but to all of the wonderful women who don't chas vsholom want a picture of Niki Haley coming into their house - who is the audience for websites such as matzav, yeshiva world, vosisneyes? Because all these websites have pictures of women, and many times even non tznius pictures of women.... if yeshivish men don't look at women (and of course they're NEVER on the internet) - how do these websites stay in business?

What I don't like is hypocrisy, that's all.
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ccwife




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 1:19 am
Mommyg8 wrote:
I originally said that the magazines should use their discretion (using headshots only, blurred pictures, or even drawings) but first, I'm starting to believe that the magazines don't HAVE discretion, and second, some here think that would be pandering. Well, personally I think it's WAAY more pandering to have no pictures at all, but what do I know... I'm outvoted.

I have just one question - not to you, but to all of the wonderful women who don't chas vsholom want a picture of Niki Haley coming into their house - who is the audience for websites such as matzav, yeshiva world, vosisneyes? Because all these websites have pictures of women, and many times even non tznius pictures of women.... if yeshivish men don't look at women (and of course they're NEVER on the internet) - how do these websites stay in business?

What I don't like is hypocrisy, that's all.


On your second point - I can't speak for anyone else but my husband stopped going on one of those sights actually after they put up a photo shoot of Ivanka. He just asks me to look up any cool news for him. I have never been so up to date about Iran in my life Smile But yeah that is a good point. There is definitely large clientele of men that read these magazines that don't use internet (thinking of a lot of my Lakewood family...). So maybe they really are targeting a different audience. Or they just want to be sble to get everyone.
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Mommyg8




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 1:27 am
ccwife wrote:
On your second point - I can't speak for anyone else but my husband stopped going on one of those sights actually after they put up a photo shoot of Ivanka. He just asks me to look up any cool news for him. I have never been so up to date about Iran in my life Smile But yeah that is a good point. There is definitely large clientele of men that read these magazines that don't use internet (thinking of a lot of my Lakewood family...). So maybe they really are targeting a different audience. Or they just want to be sble to get everyone.


Well, Ivanka unfortunately is not the poster woman for tznius, but before this happened there were always plenty of pictures of women... although I commend you and your husband for putting in the extra work. I really do.

But it does seem from your post that he was ok with tznius pictures- would that work for you in a magazine as well?

Yes, there are still some here in Lakewood that don't have internet ... but they are generally the same ones who don't buy Ami or Mishpacha either. And again, not sure why tznius headshots should be a problem...

But I'm out, you've all convinced me. It's just not going to happen... I get it.
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amother




Navy


Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 1:32 am
Mommyg8 wrote:
I originally said that the magazines should use their discretion (using headshots only, blurred pictures, or even drawings) but first, I'm starting to believe that the magazines don't HAVE discretion, and second, some here think that would be pandering. Well, personally I think it's WAAY more pandering to have no pictures at all, but what do I know... I'm outvoted.

I have just one question - not to you, but to all of the wonderful women who don't chas vsholom want a picture of Niki Haley coming into their house - who is the audience for websites such as matzav, yeshiva world, vosisneyes? Because all these websites have pictures of women, and many times even non tznius pictures of women.... if yeshivish men don't look at women (and of course they're NEVER on the internet) - how do these websites stay in business?

What I don't like is hypocrisy, that's all.


There are filters that block pictures.
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ccwife




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 1:41 am
Mommyg8 wrote:
Well, Ivanka unfortunately is not the poster woman for tznius, but before this happened there were always plenty of pictures of women... although I commend you and your husband for putting in the extra work. I really do.

But it does seem from your post that he was ok with tznius pictures- would that work for you in a magazine as well?

Yes, there are still some here in Lakewood that don't have internet ... but they are generally the same ones who don't buy Ami or Mishpacha either. And again, not sure why tznius headshots should be a problem...

But I'm out, you've all convinced me. It's just not going to happen... I get it.


Me? I'm good with everything! I only care because he does. I don't understand 95% of his taivah and I don't think I ever will. I don't color in not tznius women pictures (pregnancy books lets say) for myself. But I do respect his opinion and for the most part leave this type of thing up to him. I did convice him to let me put up a family picture though! Also he sounds like a fanatic but he's really really not.

This is going to sound very bad but I'll just say and run for cover. He would be ok reading a magazine with women who are ugly or old. Which yes I know is more than just tznius but that's what it would take for him to be comfortable opening up Mishpacha or Ami. (Which is why maybe the website didnt bother him in the beginning of our marriage until that article.) And I'll reiterate my point. The magazines know this and it's not just one guy.
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naturalmom5




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 9:02 am
ccwife wrote:
Sorry for not responding earlier. Been busy! Of course my husband sees and interacts with women! But if he had two paths to take and he knew one had women on it and one didn't he would go on the one without women. And if he had 2 magazines to choose from he'd choose the one where there'd be no pictures of them. If there was a headshot of a gorgeous 25 year old blonde author next to her article if would stop reading Mishpacha and learn. But Mishpacha doesn't want to lose him as a reader because believe me it's not just him, its many many men. So why would they? What would be pushing them to loose such a big audience?

As a side note I do think the womens magazines should have tznius pictures of girls.


If that's the case alavai the mag should fold and disappear
If it's between reading the NY Times or wasting time on a phone maybe the mispacha is better
But no question that it would be better that all the magazines should go out of business if would mean one word of Torah
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Chayalle




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 9:33 am
Mommyg8 wrote:
It's not maybe. She researched it.

This is regarding speaking to Chassidish audiences.

I think it fits because shes speaking (And being a role model by definition) to these audiences.

For those that think she's pandering - how do you see this as pandering but having no pictures of women at all is NOT pandering???? It's just that you're used to something so you're defending it. Which is honestly, really funny.


Oh, I totally think having no pictures of women is pandering to certain people, and not to others.
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ccwife




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 9:46 am
Total side note but does anyone think the Chofetz Chaim's wife would have wanted to be hanging up on everyone's walls? I could be wrong but wouldn't she have rathered been photoshopped out knowing how viral her picture would be? (Not saying it must have been photoshopped just wondering).
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gingertop




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 9:59 am
ccwife wrote:
Total side note but does anyone think the Chofetz Chaim's wife would have wanted to be hanging up on everyone's walls? I could be wrong but wouldn't she have rathered been photoshopped out knowing how viral her picture would be? (Not saying it must have been photoshopped just wondering).


Who said the chofetz chaim wanted his picture all over?

I know some Rebbes don't want their pictures taken at all and their wishes are nicely ignored by the magazines.

Again and again, everyone is proving how they see tznius as a women should be out of sight issue. Ignoring the imperative for men to have tznius, even when they themselves want to be out of the limelight. Making it seem like any frum woman could be a danger to men's shmiras ainayim is proving this whole issue is about externalizing and objectifying women.
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Ravenclaw




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 10:05 am
gingertop wrote:
Who said the chofetz chaim wanted his picture all over?

I know some Rebbes don't want their pictures taken at all and their wishes are nicely ignored by the magazines.

Again and again, everyone is proving how they see tznius as a women should be out of sight issue. Ignoring the imperative for men to have tznius, even when they themselves want to be out of the limelight. Making it seem like any frum woman could be a danger to men's shmiras ainayim is proving this whole issue is about externalizing and objectifying women.


Perfect. Love this.
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LovesHashem




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 10:07 am
Mommyg8 wrote:
It's not pandering and this is why:

Chassidish poskim pasken differently and this is halacha for Chassidim. It's not a chumrah. I'm not sure what wearing a second head covering is - if it's halacha or chumrah- but this is halacha.

If my friend only eats heimishe hechsherim is it pandering to her if I am careful to use only heimishe hechsherim when I send her food?


I remember learning that actually it's ASSUR to do another sects minahg if it's not yours. Like if you wear a mipachat and go to a wedding in the USA where you will be the ONLY woman not wearing a sheitel, it's actually ASSUR for you to borrow a sheitel; even if you stand out.
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amother




Puce


Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 10:09 am
The real answer to the title question is still "Because women exist in real life."
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Simple1




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 10:16 am
farm wrote:
The Circle is obviously not for my family- the ads always show only boys reading it and I have boy and girl readers and want my money’s worth.


Not true at all. The Circle characters Kivi and Vivi are boy and girl. They interview both girls and boys. They have stories about girls and boys. The entire magazine caters to girls and boys.
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Simple1




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 10:19 am
ccwife wrote:
Total side note but does anyone think the Chofetz Chaim's wife would have wanted to be hanging up on everyone's walls? I could be wrong but wouldn't she have rathered been photoshopped out knowing how viral her picture would be? (Not saying it must have been photoshopped just wondering).


I actually remember a story about a Gadol who would've rather not had his photo taken but allowed it out of ahavas Yisroel to make another person happy. So maybe we shouldn't have any photos of people, men or women?
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gingertop




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 10:43 am
Simple1 wrote:
So maybe we shouldn't have any photos of people, men or women?


don't give anyone any good ideas!
Egged buses were being vandalized by crazies who would rip off pictures of women from the buses. But they couldn't do a Mishpacha only men rule. They stopped featuring any humans. Then they were sued for this transparent attempt to avoid having women on their buses. I'm not sure what the outcome was and I have seen the return of human faces to buses.
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ccwife




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 10:46 am
gingertop wrote:
Who said the chofetz chaim wanted his picture all over?

I know some Rebbes don't want their pictures taken at all and their wishes are nicely ignored by the magazines.

Again and again, everyone is proving how they see tznius as a women should be out of sight issue. Ignoring the imperative for men to have tznius, even when they themselves want to be out of the limelight. Making it seem like any frum woman could be a danger to men's shmiras ainayim is proving this whole issue is about externalizing and objectifying women.


That's a good point. Maybe not. But do you think they took her picture out because of shmiras einayim?
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gingertop




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 10:49 am
ccwife wrote:
That's a good point. Maybe not. But do you think they took her picture out because of shmiras einayim?


We're back to square one. Why are women photoshopped out even if their tznius level is ok?
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ectomorph




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 11:17 am
gingertop wrote:
We're back to square one. Why are women photoshopped out even if their tznius level is ok?

I've changed my mind. Please put frum women in magazines. Anything is better than what we have now.
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