Conspicuous Consumption

little neshamala

Sun, Jun 23 2019, 6:48 pm

The solution is to build your child into the person who can feel confident enough to say no, without feeling a diminished self worth.

This starts as young as 5 years old, and is crucial, because the ultimate goal is not for her teenaged self, but for her to be the adult who can say no, to whatever idiotic social pressures she may feel at that time, like super fancy upsherins, outrageous weddings, seminary in Israel no matter what, etc etc.

Train her to be a thinker, and to love herself.

Notsobusy

Sun, Jun 23 2019, 6:57 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Among teenagers and preteens, the competition is fierce and the results are financially devastating. Each individual must prove her worth by having the latest fashions, thereby reinforcing the vicious cycle. No individual can say no, or she will face social ostracism. Is there any solution?

Like Chayalle and little neshamala wrote, the solution is to say no to your kids and to raise them to be confident. It's your responsibility as a parent to make sure your children understand, from when they are young, that everyone is different and everyone has and gets different things.

Quote:

No individual can say no, or she will face social ostracism.

This is a bunch of baloney. My most popular daughter is the one who has the most self confidence and doesn't care about what anyone else has or what's in style. She wears what she likes and does what she likes. And people like her because of her attitude, not in spite of it. And yes, she has always been like this and she has always had a lot of friends.

amother

Saddlebrown

Sun, Jun 23 2019, 9:26 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Some people are lucky and are naturally charismatic.

And some people are insecure and have the wrong values. You are projecting.

Kids don't want to be different than their peers. Very few of their peers have unlimited access to everything. You can give your kids everything, and they don't want that also.

Be reasonable and don't raise entitled kids. They will never be happy if they are relying on externals.

amother

Saddlebrown

Sun, Jun 23 2019, 10:19 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

You all talk as if there's a choice to say no... I'd have the choice if I were made of money! It's an automatic no due to circumstance, and the social repercussions are real and devastating!

You are protecting your own insecurities. Of course it is cooler to have the latest. Social ostracism doesn't result by not having the latest. The girls find others at their level. Teen are famous for saying everyone has, and you find out 3 other girls in the class have.

Fox

Sun, Jun 23 2019, 10:22 pm

These are all excellent suggestions about handling the problem within our own families, but I understood the OP to be asking about how to address the problem more globally.

It would be very easy to slow down the conspicuous consumption, but it would involve making choices that most of us are unwilling to make.

Just a few ideas:

* Pressure from Rebbes, rabbonim, and roshei yeshiva on wealthy families to tone down consumption. That means being willing to risk losing a juicy donation by saying, "Reb Berel, please don't take your family to Florida for Pesach. You are a leader, and people want to be like you, even unconsciously. If your wife isn't up to making Pesach, we'll help."

* No parlor meetings or women's teas at to-die-for houses.

* Rebbes, rabbonim, and roshei yeshiva refusing to serve as mesader kiddushin at chassunahs that exceed parameters in terms of opulence or size.

* Refusal of magazines to print ads for luxury items, and the backing of Rebbes, rabbonim , and roshei yeshiva in denouncing those publications that do so.

* Refusing to honor individuals at fundraising dinners whose material lifestyle is over the top.

* Mussar at every level about the responsibilities of living in an economically diverse community and the importance of "seemliness" in our consumption.

* Pressure from Rebbes, rabbonim, and roshei yeshiva on grandparents not to insist on simchas and other gatherings that are simply economically unfeasible and increase pressure on everyone.

Now, you're probably saying, "But Fox! That would never work . . . " And you are correct. We rarely merit leaders who are willing to tell us what we need to hear, and when we do, we rarely listen. We have every possible excuse and then some to explain why we should be judged favorably for constantly raising the bar on conspicuous consumption.

Sadly, the people driving this bus are rarely found on Imamother. In fact, I can recall quite a few huffing off, proudly claiming that it's their money and everyone else should just stop being jealous.

So we are unlikely to see any society-wide changes soon, and if history is any indication, we will probably wait until Hashem forces us to change our behavior.

amother

Slategray

Sun, Jun 23 2019, 10:34 pm

fox- you are offering to clean my house for pesach and kasher it and cook all the meals... why thank you!
Seriously. I went away for pesach one year only because didn't want to spend the money and prefer to be home but making pesach really stresses me out. I have OCD. When you say the rabbis should offer to help make pesach so people don't go away for pesach what do you have in mind?

amother

Indigo

Sun, Jun 23 2019, 10:36 pm

True. And it always bugged me that years ago,when the takana wedding guidelines were put out, there was a disclaimer that the rabbonim who signed that they wouldn't officiate at weddings that didn't abide by the guidelines except they left themselves a pretty liberal loophole, saying except for family or other important situations or some such exceptions. That was probably a good part of why few people took it seriously.

PinkFridge

Sun, Jun 23 2019, 10:52 pm

amother [ Saddlebrown ] wrote:

I think you might both be right. Yeah, I remember when one child said every parent in the class allowed something and I asked, even the x, y, and z families? I called her bluff and they each said no. I think it made it easier for her.
Because yeah, sometimes just about everyone does or has something and it's not easy to be the Nachshon.

amother

Chartreuse

Mon, Jun 24 2019, 12:01 am

Teenagers do have a tendency to be conformist, but it's a lot worse in communities where the grown ups insist on conforming too. It's not just about wealth - even more modest communities can be conformist. And worse, they pretend that it's a religious value.

I don't have a solution. I just think it's obvious that children and teenagers do what they see. If you dress like everyone else, you don't have a leg to stand on when you try to tell a teenager to think for herself.

amother

Pumpkin

Mon, Jun 24 2019, 6:35 am

mustard's comment reminds me of a poem I once read-can't remember it exactly but it went along the lines of:

when I was a child, I wanted to change the universe
as I got older, I realized that was too much, so I would change the world
then as I realized that was too much, I would only change my country
then as I realized that was too much, I decided to change my town
then as I realized that was too much, I wanted to only change my family
then as I lay on my deathbed at the end of my life, I realized I had been wrong all my life-the only thing I could change, was myself

Chayalle

Mon, Jun 24 2019, 7:27 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Some people are lucky and are naturally charismatic.

This is true. I have one child who would just saunter in with whatever, and soon 10 kids were copying her.

But the ones who are less confident and secure....filling them with nonsense doesn't fill that. Building them up, talking to them and helping them be more confident without all the trimmings does way more for them.

Spoken from experience.

southernbubby

Mon, Jun 24 2019, 7:51 am

A super confident leader type girl could make thrift stores the cool place to shop but that usually doesn't happen. Wouldn't it be grand if the competition was for who could sew her own wardrobe rather than who had the richest Daddy? When I was growing up, the derogatory term JAP was applied to wealthy Jewish girls who could manipulate their fathers into buying them fancy cars, clothes, vacations, hair styling and psychiatrists.

You can always "fake it till you make it" and buy fake versions of the brands that are in style.

You can try sites like Thread Up where the cool brands are sold second hand. In some communities there are consignment stores for teens called Pluto's Closet where you might find a pricy brand for less.
As kids are growing up, it may be a good idea to keep emphasizing that all that glitters is not gold.