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Quote from Fox about frum magazines
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amother




Royalblue
 

Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 3:06 pm
amother [ Bronze ] wrote:
Most fiction loving teens are not going to start inhaling non fiction books.

Anyway the average teen of today is much more sophisticated in a variety of ways, and I really don't think seeing some splashy ads are going to make a big impact. I just don't.


The newlyweds and young mothers of today were the teens of yesterday. And you can definetly see the way it has affected.
New apartments decorated, upsherin parties, anniversary parties, the way kids look like they stepped out of an ad, baby kiddushim, baby gear. It looks and costs very different then 10 years ago.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 3:18 pm
Fox wrote:
There are a few elements that I think are being overlooked:



Even more interesting, how do we encourage professional artisans to create Judaica if everyone makes kiddush with a plastic cup?

I don't have many answers at this point, but it's something I think about a lot.


Where's the line between noy mitzvah, I.e. using a chashuv cup for kiddush, and going overboard? (Going underboard like a plastic cup is overcorrecting.)
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 3:20 pm
Fox wrote:
I once used that as an example, thinking the humor of hyperbole was obvious. Guess again. Someone apparently took it seriously and went on a little rant about the inappropriateness of bears at a Jewish simcha.

So just in case, please follow Sequoia's advice. Do not attempt to procure or train bears of any denomination.


There was a story - totally farce - about using an elephant as a wall for a succah.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 3:22 pm
amother [ Bronze ] wrote:
Honest question for those who only allow the Yated, Hamodia, or National Geographic or whatever. What if you end up with a teenage girl who is a total bookworm, who loves fiction etc. A mostly news oriented paper or a non fiction magazine just won't cut it.


Big problem. Because there's not enough Judaica to keep them going. And as for the public library...if I had a teen reader now, I would help her be discriminating. Use the websites like chinuch.org secular booklist, or its new iteration. Help her realize that the YA section in the library is by and large a horrible wasteland.
Hatzlacha to all.
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amother




Bronze
 

Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 3:27 pm
Royal blue, I wouldn't lay the blame (or give the credit, however you prefer to look at it) at the level of current young adult sophistication at the magazines' feet. I think that happened anyway (probably because that's what happened to society at large, post internet age) and the magazines are simply trying to keep up with it. That's all.
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ectomorph




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 4:52 pm
Frum magazines have an outsize influence because everyone reads them.

I've often wondered why the rabbinical board they all claim to have stays anonymous.
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amother




Magenta
 

Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 5:41 pm
I don't think the real issue is no pics of women or the materialistic ads. I think it's that there are a growing number of people, myself included, that feel that they are not the target audience for the frum mags and yet they still want to have frum publications to read versus secular mags. What I mean is that the target audience is yeshivish, but what if you are MO? This doesn't mean you exclusively read secular books and magazines, you'd prefer quality Jewish publications and this is why the no pics of women and materialistic ads are so off putting because they give off vibes that the magazine is written for a certain sect of orthodox Judaism. I wish all the articles were written with the thought in mind that orthodox Jews of all stripes and socioeconomic statuses may be reading it.
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amother




Royalblue
 

Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 6:33 pm
amother [ Magenta ] wrote:
I don't think the real issue is no pics of women or the materialistic ads. I think it's that there are a growing number of people, myself included, that feel that they are not the target audience for the frum mags and yet they still want to have frum publications to read versus secular mags. What I mean is that the target audience is yeshivish, but what if you are MO? This doesn't mean you exclusively read secular books and magazines, you'd prefer quality Jewish publications and this is why the no pics of women and materialistic ads are so off putting because they give off vibes that the magazine is written for a certain sect of orthodox Judaism. I wish all the articles were written with the thought in mind that orthodox Jews of all stripes and socioeconomic statuses may be reading it.


What type of articles exclude groups?
I’m reading an old ami living (women section) now
Rebbetzin faigie twerski - speech
Rabbi Yoel gold - true inspirational story
Opionion - don’t shield me from bad news
Trending - clothing technology, self assessment, borax uses, insomnia info
Truth or consequences - why is my friends son in the coffee shop each morning
Health - unlocking auristic son potential
Medical minutes - frost bite, weight loss implant, viruses
12 cool new innovations
2 serialized stories
Personal story of Baal teshuva serialized
The back page - light personal antidotes.

Nothing really geared to any religious group. Only the first rebbetzin article is Torah related. Which parts ostracize different groups.

While people say they will buy Jewish magazines if women are featured I have a hard time believing they will suddenly start shelling out $100+ per year for a magazine they have no interest in reading because they have other quality papers to read. Why ostracize the main demographic for a group that just doesn’t want or need it. Besides for a religious issue it’s financial as well.
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amother




Periwinkle
 

Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 6:37 pm
mirror wrote:
I couldn't agree more. The advertisements for Pesach hotels irritate me.


Because you can’t go? What about those who do and need to see the choices@.
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amother




Bronze
 

Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 6:49 pm
There are plenty of yeshivish women who object to the no pics of women policy. It's not just MO.
I've never been to a pesach hotel. But the ads don't bother me.
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TranquilityAndPeace




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 9:44 pm
Ectomorph quoting Fox:
ectomorph wrote:



The frum magazines are serving the same role for an increasingly affluent frum audience. What kinds of foods are "in" for Shabbos and holidays? How do with-it hostesses set the table? Who are the up-and-coming Orthodox leaders in business, government, and science? What are the social problems we should care about, and which are we prompted to ignore?


Until I see things in the magazines in real life, I feel like they don't apply to me. When tablescaping is a gorgeous art in Mishpacha, it's aesthetically pleasing to me, just like the graphics of well designed pages.

However, once I visit someone who puts the tablescaping into practice, and I realize that this is real life for some people, I start to wonder if I can invite these fancy people to my plain Shabbos table, where all of the props are pretty much the same as they were in 1998 when we got married.

Ads for beautiful sheitels seem to be just commercials. Obviously everything is more glamorous in an ad than real life; think of commercials for laundry detergent! The ads seem irrelevant to me, until I see a woman in real life who appears to have stopped covering her hair, yet I know that she has a new fancy wig.

On another note, I realized when I started my luxury newborn photography business here in Baltimore, that I could be raising the standard for what "must be done" (sarcasm alert!) when you have a baby. And that is a large part of the reason why I decided to market to and target non-Jewish clients. Of course, I have frum clients, but I don't depend on them; they're less than 20% of my client base, so I hope I'm not creating yet another luxury in our lives that people think must be a necessity.
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mom_13




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jun 24 2019, 10:00 pm
Rubber Ducky wrote:
Quote:
The frum magazines are serving the same role for an increasingly affluent frum audience. What kinds of foods are "in" for Shabbos and holidays? How do with-it hostesses set the table?

I advertise my day planner, The Balabusta's Daily Organizer, in Mishpacha. I agree that the magazines promote a lifestyle that gives most of us an opportunity to practice observing the 10th commandment (Thou shalt not covet...)

Advertising exists in a symbiotic balance with publications. Magazines need the advertisers to cover their costs and make a profit. Advertisers need magazines to reach consumers. They both benefit by promoting a consumer-driven economy.

For sure I hope the Balabusta is the must-have planner for the aspiring Jewish woman, whether affluent or not! But it's not a luxury item; maybe I should triple the price to give it more cachet...


Please don't raise the price. I finally convinced myself that I can allow myself to spend 15 dollars on a nice calendar and support a jewish woman while I'm at it. I've been buying Walmart $5 planners till now and figured I'll start trying to support jewish owned businesses.
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amother




Royalblue
 

Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 1:12 am
amother [ Bronze ] wrote:
There are plenty of yeshivish women who object to the no pics of women policy. It's not just MO.
I've never been to a pesach hotel. But the ads don't bother me.


So shouldn’t the magazines that have women be doing amazing.
I keep see women saying that if magazines show women they will go out and buy it. Does that mean a 2 year subscription of each one. Or one magazine for yom tov.
I don’t believe it. Those who don’t buy now aren’t buying then because they have other reading material.
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Rubber Ducky




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 1:23 am
amother [ Royalblue ] wrote:
So shouldn’t the magazines that have women be doing amazing.
I keep see women saying that if magazines show women they will go out and buy it. Does that mean a 2 year subscription of each one. Or one magazine for yom tov.
I don’t believe it. Those who don’t buy now aren’t buying then because they have other reading material.

I really did stop subscribing to Mishpacha because of this, and I was a subscriber for several years. It bothers me that much. But since I stopped subscribing, I do buy more books.
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Rubber Ducky




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 1:29 am
mom_13 wrote:
Please don't raise the price. I finally convinced myself that I can allow myself to spend 15 dollars on a nice calendar and support a jewish woman while I'm at it. I've been buying Walmart $5 planners till now and figured I'll start trying to support jewish owned businesses.

We are holding the price of The Balabusta's Daily Organizer steady this year even though our printing costs keep rising. Thank you for your support! Our printing expenses are not that much less than Walmart's retail price — it's a lot cheaper per copy to print 3 zillion planners than to print 2 editions with a combined run of about 5,000.

I'm up much too late this evening finishing them up — iy"H we go to press tomorrow morning.

edited to correct typo


Last edited by Rubber Ducky on Tue, Jun 25 2019, 2:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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amother




Slategray
 

Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 1:53 am
1. I'm one of those people who won't buy Mishpacha or other publications until women's pictures are in them.
That said, I wouldn't buy it anyway because,
2. The couple of times I read it (buy a one-off issue or at a friend's) I am nauseated from the juxtaposition of advertisements for Harry Winston jewelry with articles lauding the kollel lifestyle. Gorgeous long sheitels next to an article about tznius. The main magazine (not FF) has articles that smack of hubris about our derech and how we sacrifice everything for Torah... Next to ads about how you need the best of this luxury and that hotel and this and that.
I don't mind advertisements for luxuries. I think it's important for people to have principles and act accordingly. I hate hypocrisy.
3. All the posters who say that the advertisements don't influence them- would you say the same about secular books? Movies? Music? Everything we see influences us, in ways obvious and subtle. You might say 'whats the harm in these ads', and I might even agree. But it absolutely changes thought patterns and behaviors.
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Rubber Ducky




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 2:01 am
TranquilityAndPeace wrote:
...On another note, I realized when I started my luxury newborn photography business here in Baltimore, that I could be raising the standard for what "must be done" (sarcasm alert!) when you have a baby. And that is a large part of the reason why I decided to market to and target non-Jewish clients. Of course, I have frum clients, but I don't depend on them; they're less than 20% of my client base, so I hope I'm not creating yet another luxury in our lives that people think must be a necessity.

That's an interesting business decision, and it's great that you're finding enough non-Jewish babies to photograph! Your work is lovely. Over 90% of my residential and kitchen design clients are frum. But they're not predominantly the "luxury" market and I don't feel like I'm raising the bar. More like I'm making good design and products available to the middle class.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 8:05 am
TranquilityAndPeace wrote:
Ectomorph quoting Fox:
Until I see things in the magazines in real life, I feel like they don't apply to me. When tablescaping is a gorgeous art in Mishpacha, it's aesthetically pleasing to me, just like the graphics of well designed pages.

However, once I visit someone who puts the tablescaping into practice, and I realize that this is real life for some people, I start to wonder if I can invite these fancy people to my plain Shabbos table, where all of the props are pretty much the same as they were in 1998 when we got married.
.


There was a story (fiction) in one of the yom tov supplements about 2 couples who would alternate getting together for a Shabbos meal, and the hilarious and ludicrious escalation of one upsmanship. (I was going to write "oneups[wo]manship" but the men got involved too.) Until - spoiler alert - the last meal.
Hidden: 

Store-bought challah, jarred gefilte fish, deli, on paper IIRC, etc.
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amother




Bronze
 

Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 8:11 am
What other weekly frum magazine (not newspaper) has pictures of women? The other ones I've heard of are either online, monthly, or for kids.
Yes, I still subscribe to the magazines, even though I am very upset about their picture policy (and more upset about the way they refuse to be honest about it and just be upfront about it being a business decision rather than based on halacha, tbh). At the end of the day, I crave decent reading material for Shabbos. I am not bothered by the ads.
Actually, the only publication that I deliberately don't have in my home is the Yated. Lol.
ETA: I read that story, too, PinkFridge. It was supposed to be satire, or at least humorous. It was dumb, to be sure, but I never thought it was offensive or anything. Just silly.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 8:29 am
amother [ Bronze ] wrote:
What other weekly frum magazine (not newspaper) has pictures of women? The other ones I've heard of are either online, monthly, or for kids.
Yes, I still subscribe to the magazines, even though I am very upset about their picture policy (and more upset about the way they refuse to be honest about it and just be upfront about it being a business decision rather than based on halacha, tbh). At the end of the day, I crave decent reading material for Shabbos. I am not bothered by the ads.
Actually, the only publication that I deliberately don't have in my home is the Yated. Lol.
ETA: I read that story, too, PinkFridge. It was supposed to be satire, or at least humorous. It was dumb, to be sure, but I never thought it was offensive or anything. Just silly.


Not offensive, just absurd. I thought the story had some LOL moments.
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