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DrMom




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 1:41 am
miriess1 wrote:
...So NOW we are BH going to be married a year tomorrow and I’m longing for a visit. I talked to my husband about it many times and he said once we’ll have the money we’ll go!!
But I’m nervous.
We look very chasidish and my husband’s ideas are satmar yet he’s willing to go to the kosel with me.
Is that super unusual or am I overthinking??

I'm confused.

You want to go to the Kotel.
Your husband wants to go to the Kotel.
What's the problem?

And why do his friends need to know about your plans?

IMO, yes, you are overthinking.
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Rappel




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 5:02 am
You don't have to be Satmar to be anti-state. Follow your heart, and get thee to a mentor!
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Zeleze




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 5:30 am
Shabes night at the Karlibach minyan near the Ladiees section, you can see many many Satmar guys, so your not alone.

Married and Bochurim
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 6:02 am
This thread makes me so sad. You can appreciate the land, and still hate the government. Lots of Israelis feel this way.

You can come here and recognize all the miracles that were done for us in the past, and mourn for the glory that is no longer here (until Moshiach comes). Just like individual people, Israel is complicated. That's no reason to avoid it. Don't live here if you can't reconcile all of the contradictions, but know that there is a lot of good to see here, too.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 7:50 am
OP, I might be all wet. But if I were in your position, besides whatever mentor you may have, I'd cultivate relationships with old timers, the oldest people around you could find, who give you the most genuine mesorah and insights into the path you've chosen.

May Moshiach come soon, before your ticket's date, and we'll all meet be"H on the other side of the Kosel.
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Israeli_C




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 7:58 am
OP as a fellow convert married to a convert I'll say this much- get yourself a grounded, respected Rav who has experience in guiding those who didn't grow up religious and keep in close contact with him! Converts often gravitate towards the most 'extreme' opinions and it doesn't always serve them well. DH went through a period of learning halacha and chassidus alone which is possibly one of the most dangerous and ill advised things to do for someone without any background in Judaism. It brought us to bad places.

Tbh (and this is only my personal opinion from experience) if you want to be chassidish, choose ONE and stick to it. Otherwise you and your kids will grow up confused, it'll cause problems for choosing educational mossados and it'll complicate which minhagim and chumros you take on yourselves. When DH decided he was drawn to chabad, I decided it was "go big or go home". He still 'looks' like a baal tshuva but I have taken on all the minhagim, chumros etc and am determined that our children will be very sure of their identities and our hashkefa.
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amother




Indigo


Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 8:07 am
I find the thread odd. I’m chasidish and always been to the kosel. Plenty of chasidim go to. Only the Satmar kanoyim don’t.
Not sure what’s the story here.
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gingertop




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 8:09 am
Israeli_C wrote:
OP as a fellow convert married to a convert I'll say this much- get yourself a grounded, respected Rav who has experience in guiding those who didn't grow up religious and keep in close contact with him! Converts often gravitate towards the most 'extreme' opinions and it doesn't always serve them well. DH went through a period of learning halacha and chassidus alone which is possibly one of the most dangerous and ill advised things to do for someone without any background in Judaism. It brought us to bad places.

Tbh (and this is only my personal opinion from experience) if you want to be chassidish, choose ONE and stick to it. Otherwise you and your kids will grow up confused, it'll cause problems for choosing educational mossados and it'll complicate which minhagim and chumros you take on yourselves. When DH decided he was drawn to chabad, I decided it was "go big or go home". He still 'looks' like a baal tshuva but I have taken on all the minhagim, chumros etc and am determined that our children will be very sure of their identities and our hashkefa.


I agree mostly with your post. It's good to be in a place where you children have an identity and definitely it's important to have a mentor.

But the downside of "go big or go home" is that sometimes the "native" chassidim have certain things that they allow themselves to do and the newcomers don't allow themselves this latitude because they're so busy trying to be 100% part of it. More chassidish than the chassidim. I grew up in such a home with some disastrous outcomes.

Look at this case. Plenty of Satmar people go to the Kosel. It's someone who joined the community (somewhat) who is scared it's inappropriate for her to go. So yes, OP should get a mentor ASAP and decide which community is best and conform as much as possible. But she should also allow herself to view the community honestly. Is everyone keeping that psak that this chassidus officially holds by?
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amother




Cyan


Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 8:14 am
PinkFridge wrote:
OP, I might be all wet. But if I were in your position, besides whatever mentor you may have, I'd cultivate relationships with old timers, the oldest people around you could find, who give you the most genuine mesorah and insights into the path you've chosen.

May Moshiach come soon, before your ticket's date, and we'll all meet be"H on the other side of the Kosel.


The issue is that doing the bolded will only get her to even greater fanatics that will make her feel that they know best what The Satmar Rebbe wanted.


She has to find someone that understands what the Satmar Rebbe zatzal would want from a convert in 2019.
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Israeli_C




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 8:17 am
gingertop wrote:
I agree mostly with your post. It's good to be in a place where you children have an identity and definitely it's important to have a mentor.

But the downside of "go big or go home" is that sometimes the "native" chassidim have certain things that they allow themselves to do and the newcomers don't allow themselves this latitude because they're so busy trying to be 100% part of it. More chassidish than the chassidim. I grew up in such a home with some disastrous outcomes.

Look at this case. Plenty of Satmar people go to the Kosel. It's someone who joined the community (somewhat) who is scared it's inappropriate for her to go. So yes, OP should get a mentor ASAP and decide which community is best and conform as much as possible. But she should also allow herself to view the community honestly. Is everyone keeping that psak that this chassidus officially holds by?


I think that having a solid Rav usually solves the issues of going 'overboard' in a chassidus. I've seen chassidim around me doing stuff which is most definitely not the chabad way - or even the Jewish way! Dressing really not tznius, and even one shlucha who - right in front of my face - stole money from a tzedakah box so she could buy some ice-cream (!) So I wouldn't rely on what others are doing, because others also have a yetzer hara.
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gingertop




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 8:22 am
Israeli_C wrote:
I think that having a solid Rav usually solves the issues of going 'overboard' in a chassidus.


Mostly. And I'm not talking about doing anything k'negged torah but sometimes the mentors hold the line and most of the regular people don't and if someone forces their kids to hold the line when their friends are doing as they please... it can lead to a lot of issues.

Anyhooo...OP, much luck and enjoy your visit one way or another!
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PinkFridge




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 8:27 am
amother [ Cyan ] wrote:
The issue is that doing the bolded will only get her to even greater fanatics that will make her feel that they know best what The Satmar Rebbe wanted.


She has to find someone that understands what the Satmar Rebbe zatzal would want from a convert in 2019.


You probably know more than I. Just thought I'd float the idea.
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naturalmom5




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 9:14 am
Strange.. If my husband would go, he stands 150 feet away from the actual wall, be cause we don't where the actual mokom hamikdash was.
Its a sufik karas..
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amother




Tan


Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 9:19 am
naturalmom5 wrote:
Strange.. If my husband would go, he stands 150 feet away from the actual wall, be cause we don't where the actual mokom hamikdash was.
Its a sufik karas..

My husband would also for Halachic reasons. But he's as litvish as they come. Op is talking about something completely different.
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amother




Ruby


Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 9:29 am
naturalmom5 wrote:
Strange.. If my husband would go, he stands 150 feet away from the actual wall, be cause we don't where the actual mokom hamikdash was.
Its a sufik karas..


We're absolutely certain that Herod's retaining wall isn't the makom hamikdash.
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amother




Tan


Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 9:39 am
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amother




Wheat


Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 10:00 am
I was on a trip to Eretz Yisroel with a family member thats Satmar. We toured the length & breadth of the country. ( so her money is supporting all sites) + we did under kosel tour, but when our tour stopped at kosel to say a few perakim of tehillim she didnt want to say tehillim there. So completely twisted around the entire shitah. The reason is for no support, so she did do that, but the holy part she missed. Whatever...
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amother




Sienna


Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 10:54 am
OP, I'm satmar, and I most probably won't go to the kosel if I go to E'Y. But you're not originally satmar. I won't be surprised that if you go in to either Rebbe and talk about your background and concern, they will approve of you're going. Not that you need their approval, just saying.
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IrenaFr




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 11:13 am
naturalmom5 wrote:
Strange.. If my husband would go, he stands 150 feet away from the actual wall, be cause we don't where the actual mokom hamikdash was.
Its a sufik karas..

It’s a pity that so many Jewish people ignore their own history and archeology . If you go to the “western wall tunnels” you will see really huge, gigantic stones that the wall is build of , nobody could destroy this wall and nobody even today can build this way . So for 200% mokom hamikdash couldn’t be in this place . And it makes everyone really wonder how they build the wall . For me the tour was one of the signs to discover Torah and Judaism.
About the tunnels :
“A tour of the Tunnels unveils hidden sections of the Western Wall. It moves through underground passages, mikves and ancient water trenches, streets from the Second Temple era, a quarry used to excavate stones for the Kotel and more. The Western Wall’s enormous courses of stone are revealed in full size and magnitude, telling us about the architecture and building practices of different historical eras. ”
When you see those magnificent stones you really understand that hamikdash was something not from this world and was build by miracles. Because now people with all the technology in the world can’t do it, it’s just impossible . I don’t know how people can remain atheists after this tour .
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amother




Ruby


Post  Tue, Jun 25 2019, 11:27 am
IrenaFr wrote:
It’s a pity that so many Jewish people ignore their own history and archeology . If you go to the “western wall tunnels” you will see really huge, gigantic stones that the wall is build of , nobody could destroy this wall and nobody even today can build this way . So for 200% mokom hamikdash couldn’t be in this place . And it makes everyone really wonder how they build the wall . For me the tour was one of the signs to discover Torah and Judaism.
About the tunnels :
“A tour of the Tunnels unveils hidden sections of the Western Wall. It moves through underground passages, mikves and ancient water trenches, streets from the Second Temple era, a quarry used to excavate stones for the Kotel and more. The Western Wall’s enormous courses of stone are revealed in full size and magnitude, telling us about the architecture and building practices of different historical eras. ”
When you see those magnificent stones you really understand that hamikdash was something not from this world and was build by miracles. Because now people with all the technology in the world can’t do it, it’s just impossible . I don’t know how people can remain atheists after this tour .


Stonehenge, the Great Pyramid of Giza, and the Easter Island heads are all at least as large. Some of the ancients knew how to move large stones.

Kedusha doesn't necessarily require supernatural events. Human beings can participate in the creation of holy places.

I think some people want to suggest that everything about the Mikdash was miraculous because it absolves us of the responsibility to act. We know quite a bit about the building of Bayis Sheni. It involved the technologies of the time, building permits, and the efforts of ordinary people. And who knows, Smile the same may be true of the third Mikdash.
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