Family of 5 in one bedroom

ROFL

Fri, Jun 28 2019, 6:40 pm

This maybe your Rov shitta- Halacha does not says to have relations in the dark under covers. It is minhag and shitta of certain groups. Not all frum Jews practice that !

amother [ cornflower ] wrote:

So many people are confused about this. According to halacha:

One MAY NOT have relations in a room with AWAKE children over age 2 or so. (an age which can speak / describe what they saw)

One MAY have relations in a room with SLEEPING children of any age.

One MAY have relations in a room with AWAKE babies.

Remember that according to halacha, relations are to be in the dark, and under a cover.

Please feel free to verify this.

amother

Apricot

Fri, Jun 28 2019, 7:02 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I don’t understand why you keep on going on with this.... this isn’t the issue!
my husband and I are adults. I don’t want to give out too much information but again, I’m pretty sure this issue can happen even for those that have more than one bedroom. FYI we do it only when they’re asleep and I know my kids, they never go out of the room unless someone gets sick. And yes, so far they’re still young so it’s not as bad as you think.

No issue if you're under the covers and is dark. They won't see anything. This is how everyone in the world used to be.

yerushamama

Sat, Jun 29 2019, 3:53 pm

We were lucky enough to rent a larger apartment from the start, but in Israel it is increasingly common for families to live in tight quarters for years. My DD's neighbors lived in a one bedroom until shortly after number 6 was born. The parents slept in the BR with the youngest, and the salon was a children's BR at night. I asked my Rebbitzen about it at one point, and she said that it does get more complicated as the kids get older, but if you live in a community where it is within the range of normal, it will not harm the kids in any way. If this is not considered normal where you live, then please start thinking about how long you can continue this way, and look for a larger apartment about a year before your latest estimate.

You should have a lot of hatzlach, and may this experience help your children, as they grow older, to see the value of managing with what they have.

Rappel

Sat, Jun 29 2019, 7:17 pm

As far as storage: I love the Ikea 25 cubby cube. It's a wooden furniture, 5 by 5 cubic shelves, and they also sell fabric boxes which fit the cubes. The upper two rows can be clothes with the cubes, and bottom three rows become toys. It's beautiful, and very easy for children to understand the order of things.

amother

Sienna

Sat, Jun 29 2019, 7:20 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

im pretty sure for those that have more than one bedroom there’s still also always a chance that their kids can walk in on them! I don’t get this.

Yes, has happened to us. We both thought the door was locked. Can't Believe It

amother

Sienna

Sat, Jun 29 2019, 7:25 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Agreed. There are plenty of creative ways to “communicate” (love that euphemism TwinsMommy!) with your DH in sneaky ways. Those of you harping on about this, do you want OP to graphically describe 101 creative ways to “communicate” with your DH so your kids don’t know? I am sure most of our ancestors could write volumes on this subject.

TwinsMommy

Sat, Jun 29 2019, 10:15 pm

ok ok I'm sorry I asked the question--- I didn't realize I'd have a ton of people carrying it forward as if it was the main issue. It was just a simple question---- we've never done it with even tiny babies in the room awake or asleep-- I just couldn't imagine. Covers come off, things get a little louder, there's a lot of moving around. I just can't imagine being a 3, 4, 5, 6, whatever year old sleeping in my parents' bedroom and waking up and seeing anything resembling that, that's all. To each their own.

In my mind, if your landlord is ok with you or your kids sleeping in a dining room, living room, etc and there is privacy in some way for the parents, zie gezunt.

amother

Apricot

Sat, Jun 29 2019, 10:24 pm

TwinsMommy wrote:

There's a reason for the minhag to do it under the covers. My kids have walked in and never had any idea.

aricelli

Sat, Jun 29 2019, 10:39 pm

Rappel wrote:

These are great! I bought this to “divide” a room.

shabbatiscoming

Sun, Jun 30 2019, 2:23 pm

amother [ Amethyst ] wrote:

How do u plan to deal with having kids of different genders in such close quarters when they get older and must be separate and private?

MUST?????? Really?????? One does what they are able to do. I have relatives, very frum relatives, with 7 children, bli ayin hara, who lived in a 2 bedroom apartment. ALL of the children slept in one room. Each child took their turn before bed and after waking up, in the bathroom (only one of those as well) to get changed and dressed. They are all fine and nothing happened. They all shared one bedroom their entire childhood and they are all still fine and just as frum as always.

shabbatiscoming

Sun, Jun 30 2019, 2:29 pm

amother [ Amethyst ] wrote:

It’s not permissible to have relations with kids of a certain age in the room, and it’s not permissible for kids over a certain age to sleep there anyway.

This is definitely not true. CHildren cant sleep in the same bedroom as their parents? Source please? I highly doubt that.

amother

Linen

Sun, Jun 30 2019, 2:31 pm

Maybe shabbatiscoming, but at some point you will run out of room. Just how many beds/mattresses can you stuff into one room, even with bunkbeds. And if you have tall teens, they may not fit on a bunk bed anyway. Not to mention stepping over sleeping sibs on mattresses if someone gets up in the middle of the night. Or comes in late because they have a later bedtime.

shabbatiscoming

Sun, Jun 30 2019, 2:43 pm

amother [ Linen ] wrote:

As I said, my relatives lived 9 mefashot to a 2 bedroom home. The children slept in trundle beds that had more than one bed to pull out under it. I think one had 3 and the other 4 or something like that. So, no, there was no room to walk and they had to all be careful, but thats how their life was, it was what it was and they all turned out just fine. They each had a bed and in the morning they put their bed back under the top bed and it was fine.
Not sure why this is such an issue.

Hundreds of years ago, kids did not have their own rooms. Usually kids slept all in one room and many shared beds as well. You make do with what you have.

amother

Linen

Sun, Jun 30 2019, 2:48 pm

I don't think you can compare the standard of living with 100 years ago. A hundred years ago, most kids worked full days to help support their families or were apprenticed out with very little leisure time so a bedroom was just a place to sleep briefly.
Besides, there is a big difference btwn 1 bedroom and 2. With 2, the kids' sleeping arrangements can migrate out to the living room. With 1, as the OP describes, that is the parents' area. And yeah, teenagers coming out for the bathroom or whatever WILL know what's going on if their parents are having s-x even if they are under their covers. Sorry, I don't care if that was the standard a couple hundred years ago, I think it would be very detrimental for nowadays. And non tznius even if not an actual halachic problem.

pesek zman

Sun, Jun 30 2019, 2:59 pm

amother [ Linen ] wrote:

In my case the bedroom is absolutely just a place to sleep. Between working 8 hours a day + commute, and my chilld being in full time day care, we are out of the apartment for 10 hours a day and only have 2 hours of wake time till bedtime. We are only home together on the weekends.

amother

Linen

Sun, Jun 30 2019, 3:26 pm

Things change as kids get older, want to invite friends over, need space and quiet to study etc. In Israel, sure, they can hang out outside year round. Doesn't work in the U.S.

chestnut

Sun, Jun 30 2019, 3:29 pm

amother [ Linen ] wrote:

Things change as kids get older, want to invite friends over, need space and quiet to study etc. In Israel, sure, they can hang out outside year round. Doesn't work in the U.S.

How is it different in Israel? Do they invite friends to the street instead of home? Do they study in the streets? Do they roam outside when need space?

shabbatiscoming

Sun, Jun 30 2019, 3:38 pm

amother [ Linen ] wrote:

Things change as kids get older, want to invite friends over, need space and quiet to study etc. In Israel, sure, they can hang out outside year round. Doesn't work in the U.S.

Im sorry but no, in Israel, you can not hang out outside all year round. Have you been in Israel in the rainy season, at least 5 months out of the year? As the above reply said, where should kids hang out, on the street? In the park? No, kids hang out in the living room or dining room. Why can that not work in america??? Im sorry, but I have many friends growing up, in america, that shared rooms and kids hung out either with siblings and friends in their rooms or in the dinning and living rooms of their homes. Children do NOT NEED their own rooms. Sharing is fine. Even in america.

amother

Linen

Sun, Jun 30 2019, 3:40 pm

The weather is nice, there are a lot of safe parks, easy, safe public transportation in Israel.
Where I live, unsafe and unreliable public transportation. No safe parks around pwithin walking distance, everything is a long drive and not safe for kids to visit around on their own. Cold winters.
I'm not saying kids need their own rooms. I grew up in a double digit family and always shared rooms, for an extended time with 5 other siblings-- we had 2 bunkbeds, 1 crib, and 1 mattress on the floor. It was not a large room. So yes, I know what I'm talking about. To squeeze 9 kids (including teenagers) into 1 small room while parents sleep in the living room, when the kids are housebound for most of the year is not as simple as you make it out to sound.
And btw, no, I didn't really have anywhere to do my homework. Or anywhere to invite my friends.