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Where a Yeshivish family should move from Israel to USA?
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amother




OP


Post  Thu, Jul 18 2019, 4:18 am
amother [ Mauve ] wrote:
But it also sounds like she wants the hashkafah of the Yeshiva not to be into long term learning. That's where there's the clash.


Not exactly.

Fully supportive of long-term learning if it makes sense for the boy's kochos and they have financial backing. Not so supportive of a one sized fits all approach where long term learning is "do or die" and if they go to work at 25 or 30, they must be modern and marry a more modern/less yeshivish girl.
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amother




Ivory


Post  Thu, Jul 18 2019, 4:37 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Not exactly.

Fully supportive of long-term learning if it makes sense for the boy's kochos and they have financial backing. Not so supportive of a one sized fits all approach where long term learning is "do or die" and if they go to work at 25 or 30, they must be modern and marry a more modern/less yeshivish girl.


Mirrer yeshiva definitely promotes long term learning, even if students eventually go look for work. I grew up near there and a lot of my friends whose brothers went there wound up in Lakewood. I used to go there for shul growing up. I can't say how it really is now, but I would be surprised if it was considered just as admirable to look for work after a few years as long term learning. But then maybe I only knew very shtark families from there and my experience isn't representative. I'm not saying a boy would be rejected if he wanted to go work, but I do think he wouldn't be perceived as one of the "best boys".

Also, being in Brooklyn definitely won't meet her last couple of criteria regarding community being welcoming and out of townish, and I say that knowing wonderful people from Brooklyn.
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SRF




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 18 2019, 5:52 am
Israelis don't look down at someone who has a car or big house
They just can't afford it!!
that is the only reason they don't have it
a big house is something everyone dreams about for a big family
if you live in Romat Eshcol or Serotzkin all neighbors are american so the children grow up diffrently than other places.
[still American personality has something special]
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gold21




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Jul 28 2019, 1:00 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Hi,

We are considering moving from E"Y back to the states after living in E"Y for around 7 years. We both grew up in the USA but our kids were all born in E"Y. We are looking for some guidance as to the best place to live. We are considering the following places right now, but would be open to hear other ideas:
Passaic/Clifton
Jackson
Cleveland
Baltimore

We both grew up MO, but are now charedi/Yeshivish. Our kids go to charedi Israeli chadarim and are growing up very integrated into Israeli charedi society. We do not ascribe to the "be American in Israel" camp. Husband learns half the day and works half the day. We daven and are friends with kollel families and shtark working families. We only have kosher phones, internet only for work, no movies for the kids.

Although from an American standard, our house would be considered small and simple, from an Israeli perspective, we are very "megusham". Our kids are dressed nicely, we buy food like Americans, go on vacations, we have walls which are not painted white, we have nice furniture and lighting fixtures etc...

We are mainly thinking about moving because we don't agree with the Israeli educational system (lack of BASIC secular education for the boys and no normal physical activities, or kosher outlets). We also are very turned off by the culture, (which we rightly or wrongly interpret as a lack of middos/derech eretz etc...)and the extreme shunning of all gashmiyus among the people we live around. For example, we feel that in Israeli Charedi society , you are looked down upon if you have a nice sized house, or a decent car (or a car at all!), but in many places in the US it's the total opposite. We are just looking for somewhere in between these two extremes.

To summarize we are looking for a place where:
- The families are sincerely frum, growing bnei aliyah (not simply I'm Yeshivish because I was born that way)

-Families believe strongly in dass torah, very makpid on halacha and learning is a top priority.

- Children are highly encouraged to learn after marriage, but are given the skills and hashfaka that it's OK to support your family if/when the situation arises.

- Having a large house with a big backyard, nice furnishings, appliances is not looked down upon, but people keep it within reason and are not into gashmiyus/trends for the sake of gashmiyus (this is obviously subjective)

-Neighborhood is clean and not run-down / old

- People are super friendly, great middos, welcoming (I.e. more out of town)


What does that say about a society where it's only "OK" to support your family if/when the situation arises. Oh okay fine, I guess it's OK... Sigh.... So support your family.... because they desperately need you to... And because you're obligated to.... Sigh... Whatever.... So I guess it's OK.... Sort of. But not really.

Really, the fact that OP even had to mention this in her search for a community is a shame. Doesn't every community understand that IF/WHEN THE SITUATION ARISES it's more than okay- rather, it's commendable, decent, and honorable- to make it a priority to support your family? I would hope so.

I would hope OP would find a healthy attitude towards parnassah everywhere she looks. That should not be what sways her search one way or another. Common sense belongs to all of us. So, hopefully that won't sway the search. If it does, that's quite upsetting and just not a good look.

Well, OP, good luck to you in finding the right place for your family!
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mochamix18




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Jul 28 2019, 2:54 am
Smile1978 wrote:
what about Ramat Bet Shemesh? I think it fits the profile perfectly. Laugh
exactly what I was thinking
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byisrael




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Jul 28 2019, 5:43 am
For all those who keep suggesting RBS - op clearly said they don't want to live like chutznikim in Israel (smart move Op). Also the RBS schools and communities that have the secular studies (Darchei Noam, Magen Avot) will also have the exposure to movies, smartphones, different tznuis standards that she doesn't....

Op I think you need to come to terms with the fact that in 2019 the utopia doesn't exist. Either you will need to go to a community where there are good secular studies and it's considered ok learn full time but compromise to some extant on exposure to pop culture or have less exposure but less acceptance of not learning.

You need to look for the closest fit;
In the states I think Baltimore sounds like it could work, Cleveland as well,Detroit, Chicago, and parts of flatbush - (though you won't get the nice house with a big yard). Passaic is pretty yuppie and Lakewood is more in town then Brooklyn these days(jackson basically is lakewood)

I have found though that the Yeshivish Charedi Americans sometimes tend to be more extreme then the Yeshvish Charedi Israeli's (maybe because they are trying to fit in). While you won't find mainstream charedi schools with secular education past 8th grade, there are communities where it is accepted to work and less of an extreme condecension for gashmiyus - and you still will have the charedi standards when it comes to media, tznuis ect.) think Elad, parts of Beitar, and most of the charedi communities in secular cities (Kiryat Ata, Petach Tikvah, Haifa, Carmiel,Afula....)
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shaimac1




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Aug 08 2019, 4:16 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Hi,

We are considering moving from E"Y back to the states after living in E"Y for around 7 years. We both grew up in the USA but our kids were all born in E"Y. We are looking for some guidance as to the best place to live. We are considering the following places right now, but would be open to hear other ideas:
Passaic/Clifton
Jackson
Cleveland
Baltimore

We both grew up MO, but are now charedi/Yeshivish. Our kids go to charedi Israeli chadarim and are growing up very integrated into Israeli charedi society. We do not ascribe to the "be American in Israel" camp. Husband learns half the day and works half the day. We daven and are friends with kollel families and shtark working families. We only have kosher phones, internet only for work, no movies for the kids.

Although from an American standard, our house would be considered small and simple, from an Israeli perspective, we are very "megusham". Our kids are dressed nicely, we buy food like Americans, go on vacations, we have walls which are not painted white, we have nice furniture and lighting fixtures etc...

We are mainly thinking about moving because we don't agree with the Israeli educational system (lack of BASIC secular education for the boys and no normal physical activities, or kosher outlets). We also are very turned off by the culture, (which we rightly or wrongly interpret as a lack of middos/derech eretz etc...)and the extreme shunning of all gashmiyus among the people we live around. For example, we feel that in Israeli Charedi society , you are looked down upon if you have a nice sized house, or a decent car (or a car at all!), but in many places in the US it's the total opposite. We are just looking for somewhere in between these two extremes.

To summarize we are looking for a place where:
- The families are sincerely frum, growing bnei aliyah (not simply I'm Yeshivish because I was born that way)

-Families believe strongly in dass torah, very makpid on halacha and learning is a top priority.

- Children are highly encouraged to learn after marriage, but are given the skills and hashfaka that it's OK to support your family if/when the situation arises.

- Having a large house with a big backyard, nice furnishings, appliances is not looked down upon, but people keep it within reason and are not into gashmiyus/trends for the sake of gashmiyus (this is obviously subjective)

-Neighborhood is clean and not run-down / old

- People are super friendly, great middos, welcoming (I.e. more out of town)


Hi I am not sure what your time frame for moving or your parnassa options are, but if you are interested in the Midwest please look into South Bend, our community is what you are looking for and we have tuition vouchers. Feel free to PM me to find out more! Hatzlacha with your search and may it be with much Mazel and Bracha.
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amother




Pink


Post  Fri, Aug 09 2019, 9:19 am
Hi, although South Bend is not mentioned in your original post, I strongly believe you should look into this community as it seems to check off a lot of boxes on your list. Its a small welcoming community, with affordable living, and has school vouchers. My husband is the official recruiter for the community and can give you all the information should you want to know more. Please reach out to Simon and CDIsouthbend@gmail.com.

Have a good Shabbos and a meaningful fast.
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