Open Minded to less frum... and more??

Mommyg8

Fri, Jul 19 2019, 6:21 am

urban gypsy wrote:

This sounds like orthorexia Sad

No, she only eats organic, certain foods, no sugar.... she thinks we're all slowly poisoning ourselves (and maybe we are!). With all that, I love her dearly and I would be really really upset and hurt if she wouldn't show up to a family gathering.

To answer an earlier question above - we don't eat out much in restaurants (out family is too poor) but if we would I'm sure she wouldn't eat either.

amother

Vermilion

Fri, Jul 19 2019, 6:26 am

Wow. People are just looking for ways to be insulted.

Why do you care if someone is not eating at a restaurant? He came for the company, not the food. He paid his share!! Why on earth should it matter if he eats? He's in a big group, it's not like it's an awkward date!

I have seen people not eat at restaurants due to allergies, or being finicky, or being vegan and refusing to eat in a non-vegan place, or kosher standards, or hygiene freaks, or health freaks (my cosmetician won't touch a morsel in a restaurant, she considers it poison).

So what? Should they stay home because of their self-imposed food regulations??

In the story mentioned above, if the brother had insisted on the ultra-kosher venue or he wouldn't come, that would have been rude. But he came, he let his sister choose the place, he was respectful and just wanted to see them.

I can't believe people think he is at fault here. I say this as someone who doesn't keep any chumrot, and will eat practically anywhere.

When visiting my house, some of my chassidic relatives eat everything (including cooked food), and some only drink water out of plastic cups. I love them all the same. We have different standards and different values, and that's totally fine.

amother

Cerulean

Fri, Jul 19 2019, 6:26 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

That really may be orthorexia - being obsessed with "good" foods.
https://www.timberlineknolls.c.....ects/

Simple1

Fri, Jul 19 2019, 6:33 am

amother [ Apricot ] wrote:

This example is a poor example of that. The family members are reacting towards the implications that their food is not kosher, or the insult of their food not being eaten. They're not really on a war path (at least in most cases) to antagonize him just for being more frum. They're not acting on the offense - "hey, here comes Moshe with his frum meshugas, let's make life difficult for him". They're responding defensively to the implications his actions are sending. They're on the defense, not the offense. And that's key here. If they'd be on the offense, they'd be non-tolerant. If they're defending themselves, tolerance is not really the issue.

This whole concept of being insulted by different kashrus levels is so foreign for me. Between dh and I, our extended families are on all types of kashrus level, from very very leniant to very strict. It's just a cold hard fact of life that different people have different food standards, nothing personal.

Some examples: My brother has a non frum tradtional relative who goes out of the way to make things kosher so the all the families can attend. And when my father eats by us, I try to accomodate his hechshers. We once attended an event - and a relative told us straight out that the food being served in the hotel before the event was probably not on our standard of kashrus, but the main event was. And like mommyg8 mentioned, we have some relatives who won't eat because of health reasons.

If you're tolerant of different standards, than there's no reason to be offended.

amother

Floralwhite

Fri, Jul 19 2019, 9:31 am

amother [ Cerulean ] wrote:

But maybe English really isn't her mother tongue. That's the impression I got from her writing. And if she spoke to her daughter in Yiddish, the sales clerk might have thought so too. Sometimes people are just trying to be nice.

Ahem, no. I spoke to her in English. And her tone of voice was nowhere near nice.
The only reason I even posted this (silly) story on this thread is because these threads keep cropping up quite often here. All I wanted to do was point out that it happens the other way around too.

(P.s. women in wsmbg actually understand and could speak the english language.)

amother

Aubergine

Fri, Jul 19 2019, 9:37 am

amother [ Floralwhite ] wrote:

Ahem, no. I spoke to her in English. And her tone of voice was nowhere near nice.
The only reason I even posted this (silly) story on this thread is because these threads keep cropping up quite often here. All I wanted was to point out that it happens the other way around too.

(P.s. women in wsmbg actually understand and could speak the english language.)

Welcome to imamother. Notice that in all the right wing bad middos posts, no one is critical of the story. But everyone is bashing the rw people in the thread. And even though English is my first language, I have many typos when I type. It's from typing quickly on a phone and autocorrect.

SixOfWands

Fri, Jul 19 2019, 9:55 am

Simple1 wrote:

I really don't care what other people eat, so long as they don't comment on ME or mine.

But what you're saying is very different from what the poster said.

You purchase heckshers that your father accepts, and he eats in your house. To be equivalent, your father would have to tell you that the level of kashrut in your home doesn't meet his standards, so he won't eat anything at all, even things that don't require a hecksher, and even things with a hecksher he approves of.

Because if the guy felt that it was a kosher restaurant, just not heckshers he used, he could have had a baked potato. Or a salad. Or salmon with no sauce. But no. He was taking the position that a potato baked in the oven of a restaurant that was sufficiently kosher for the woman the poster referred to as "frum" -- and, if I read between the lines correctly, for the poster herself -- was actually treyf for him. That goes beyond "I don't eat that hecksher."

amother

Floralwhite

Fri, Jul 19 2019, 9:58 am

amother [ Aubergine ] wrote:

Oh, I agree. I’ve been on here long enough. Hypocrisy at its finest.
And yeah, I type on my phone too.

urban gypsy

Fri, Jul 19 2019, 10:02 am

SixOfWands wrote:

Because if the guy felt that it was a kosher restaurant, just not heckshers he used, he could have had a baked potato. Or a salad. Or salmon with no sauce. But no. He was taking the position that a potato baked in the oven of a restaurant that was sufficiently kosher for the woman the poster referred to as "frum" -- and, if I read between the lines correctly, for the poster herself -- was actually treyf for him. That goes beyond "I don't eat that hecksher."

THANK YOU that is what I was trying to say and couldn't find the words to express
Otherwise how could water be literally the only option??????

OOTforlife

Fri, Jul 19 2019, 10:27 am

SixOfWands wrote:

Do you really think he would've improved matters by requesting a plain double-foil wrapped baked potato? Something tells me that such a request might have riled the relative up even more.

Edit: also, now I am picturing the potato scene from Everything is Illuminated.

amother

Linen

Fri, Jul 19 2019, 11:24 am

OOTforlife wrote:

Impossible to know.

But to repeat myself from yesterday - Sticking to her guns re: restaurant choice doesn't indicate lack of 'open mindedness'.

Indicates lack of flexibility, perhaps coupled with stubbornness.

allthingsblue

Fri, Jul 19 2019, 11:24 am

SixOfWands wrote:

Because according to him, he just can't eat it. Simple as that. He's not saying it's treif. He's saying he doesn't eat it. That's all. He is not obligated to eat something that's not his minhag just to satisfy a relative. A mature person should be happy with his company , or should have chosen a different restaurant.
Salmon, baked potato, salad- these can all have potential issues. If I don't hold by a certain hechsher, I can't eat anything there, except maybe coffee, beverages, fruit.
You can and should eat them if you are ok with the hechsher. betayavon!

Just like I understand it's ok for some women to not wear stockings or to show a bit of hair or to not cover. That's what they hold. But since I don't hold like that, I simply can't do it. I just can't, no matter whom I might offend. (I wouldn't be rude about it though.)

allthingsblue

Fri, Jul 19 2019, 11:29 am

amother [ Apricot ] wrote:

The family is jumping to conclusions. He's not saying it's not kosher, he's saying it's not chumra-abiding enough for him. Just him. Not them.

OOTforlife

Fri, Jul 19 2019, 11:38 am

amother [ Linen ] wrote:

Not sure why you're repeating this to me--I didn't say anything about her choice of restaurant. I don't think there's anything wrong with her picking the restaurant she prefers for her special occasion.

The unreasonable part is where she stopped speaking to her brother or BIL (don't remember) because he quietly abstained from eating there. I myself wouldn't call it a lack of open-mindedness, because open-mindedness isn't the issue. I would think that either she has some sort of emotional baggage in this one particular area (despite being generally nice and reasonable) or she's just generally a difficult and volatile person.

The only people I know IRL who I can imagine reacting this way (stopping speaking to someone) over such a choice are generally very difficult and strain their relationships with others in myriad ways.