Less frum more frum

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Less frum more frum

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amother

Thu, Jul 18 2019, 4:51 pm

Do these terms annoy anyone else besides me? To me they are epitome of being judgmental.
What does it even mean to be more or less frum?
Rant over. Thanks.

Cookiegirl

Thu, Jul 18 2019, 4:56 pm

Just substitute a K for an F, and it makes the whole think much easier to digest...

BatyaEsther

Thu, Jul 18 2019, 5:14 pm

OP, Could not agree with you more!

amother

Thu, Jul 18 2019, 5:27 pm

Cookiegirl wrote:

Just substitute a K for an F, and it makes the whole think much easier to digest...

What? Not getting what you’re saying

Cookiegirl

Thu, Jul 18 2019, 5:32 pm

If you use the words "less krum" vs. "more krum" then the meaning flips in a way to protect the innocent...you can't be "more frum" and judgmental at the same time- they are antithetical because a big part of being frum is being dan l"kaf zechus and being an oheiv yisroel (if, however, you are "more krum" and judgmental, then it makes sense. Whenever someone gets on their high horse frumkeit wise, I just make the f/k switch- it's working for me so far ;-)).

amother

White

Thu, Jul 18 2019, 5:48 pm

Cookiegirl wrote:

Just substitute a K for an F, and it makes the whole think much easier to digest...

What does KRUM mean?

Flip Flops

Thu, Jul 18 2019, 5:59 pm

I very much disagree. Being less frum/ more frum is not at all judgmental. It is a fact/state of being. You can substitute it for right wing or left wing if you'd like, but just because someone is less frum or more, it doesn't have to mean that you are judging.

amother

Pumpkin

Thu, Jul 18 2019, 6:06 pm

Of course there is less and more frum.
Frum means religious. There are less religious people and more religious people.
Some people freely identify as less religious, some people freely identify as more religious.

The problems of course start when we move to others categorizing us. Because the meaning of 'religious' or 'frum' is so subjective. Everyone has their own interpretation of what a religious person is.

Honestly, I don't see what the big deal is. We are never going to agree on it, it is so subjective. It's like agreeing on who is the most beautiful.

amother

Beige

Thu, Jul 18 2019, 6:12 pm

Flip Flops wrote:

It is the people who fit into the less frum label that protest the label. I freely agree there are people more frum than me.

giselle

Thu, Jul 18 2019, 6:12 pm

amother [ White ] wrote:

What does KRUM mean?

Crooked frum.

amother

Thu, Jul 18 2019, 6:13 pm

amother [ White ] wrote:

What does KRUM mean?

Yes my question exactly. Thanks

amother

Pumpkin

Thu, Jul 18 2019, 6:14 pm

Flip Flops wrote:

See that's the thing, you can't substitute right and left wing for more and less frum.

More right wing does not mean more frum. Not necessarily, in any case. A very right wing person does not necessarily keep halacha and the spirit of halacha any better than a left wing person does.

(In many places, 'frummer', or more religious, means more spiritual, rather than more right wing. In other places, 'frummer' means more right wing, more chumrot).

The whole thing is very subjective, and very community dependent.

Flip Flops

Thu, Jul 18 2019, 6:18 pm

amother [ Pumpkin ] wrote:

ok, I agree with u, it was just that op was bothered by the term frum so I was trying to explain it differently.

amother

Indigo

Thu, Jul 18 2019, 6:21 pm

amother [ Pumpkin ] wrote:

I agree with you. Frum is not synonym for stringent.

amother

White

Thu, Jul 18 2019, 6:22 pm

giselle wrote:

Crooked frum.

I wish I could say that helped, but it doesn't.

Fully admitting it could be me.

amother

Pumpkin

Thu, Jul 18 2019, 6:23 pm

amother [ Beige ] wrote:

It is the people who fit into the less frum label that protest the label. I freely agree there are people more frum than me.

Not always.
Some groups rightly don't want to be labelled as less frum. For example, a left wing community which is very serious about its Judaism, and very committed to a Torah life, might be upset at being called less frum just because the women, for example, don't cover their hair (even though they are all very learned and can quote all the sources that led to this choice).

On the other hand, some communities openly self-identify as less frum and they are comfortable with that. They aren't 'left wing', necessarily, they are just less committed, and they don't see value in joining the race to be the frummest. In fact, they often take pride in being less frum, and might identify as 'dati lite' (in Israel) or the like. They are proud of the way they merge yiddishkeit in their lives, and have no desire to change the balance.

naturalmom5

Thu, Jul 18 2019, 6:26 pm

amother [ White ] wrote:

What does KRUM mean?

Demented

naturalmom5

Thu, Jul 18 2019, 6:29 pm

The Tzanzer Rov said frum stands
For

Fila Rishus Un veiniker Mitzvos

amother

Thu, Jul 18 2019, 7:08 pm

naturalmom5 wrote:

The Tzanzer Rov said frum stands
For

Fila Rishus Un veiniker Mitzvos

Can you please translate this

sub

Thu, Jul 18 2019, 7:23 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Can you please translate this

Alot of evil, less mitzvot

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