We go on vacations and have a tuition break

amother

Babypink

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 4:42 pm

simcha2 wrote:

She doesn't get to decide that.

Assuming that the actual cost is $8000, but they charge $12,000 to cover those not able to pay full tuition, if you are able to pay the $12,000 but don't, someone else is paying even more.

Either way, by choosing (not can't) to not pay full tuition you are placing more of the burden on others.

Personally even when things were very tight I never wanted to be that person. If you're comfortable making others pay more. Good for you. But be honest. Someone else is paying for her vacation.

No one else is paying for her vacation. Someone else is paying more for someone else's child, yes. There's a difference.

simcha2

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 4:46 pm

amother [ Babypink ] wrote:

No one else is paying for her vacation. Someone else is paying more for someone else's child, yes. There's a difference.

If she can pay the tuition and instead is taking a vacation. The person paying more is covering what she chooses not to. That money is being spent on a vacation. The person paying more is allowing op to spend that money on vacation (ie, paying for her vacation)

amother

Red

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 4:57 pm

I work in an OOT school and our full tuition of 15k is the actual cost per student, no one is subsidizing anyone else.
That being said if someone was getting a $2,000 tuition break and they were going on a nice vacation once a year we wouldn't blink.
Problem is what is happening much more frequently is that people are paying $5000 tuition (10k break) and then going on lavish vacations. These are the people that we have huge issues with

simcha2

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 5:01 pm

amother [ Red ] wrote:

How is the difference in actual and paid cost made up?

In our oot schools, the cost is higher than actual, and total tuition doesn't cover the full bill. So fundraising. But parents are the primary source of the fundraising.

JoyInTheMorning

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 5:11 pm

I'm with simcha2. We pay full tuition, which is extremely high. There is no money for vacation. There is no money for day camp of sleepaway camp. There is no money for cleaning help. A large percentage of the kids in my kids school get a reduction in tuition, and nearly everyone goes on vacation every year. I feel that I am doing the right thing, but it's hard not to resent those who take advantage of the system while we don't have things that many others do. Then again, I usually try to keep my perspective. We are not poor. We have a nice though small house. We are not going hungry. I just try to stay out of conversations where people talk about their vacations, their house renovations, and their cleaning help.

amother

Red

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 5:15 pm

Quote:

So fundraising. But parents are the primary source of the fundraising.

Yes, fundraising - some grants, Federation money, and mostly parents. But the parents giving money are fully aware that they're subsidizing tuitions - it's not "hidden" in other charges

simcha2

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 5:20 pm

amother [ Red ] wrote:

Quote:

So fundraising. But parents are the primary source of the fundraising.

Yes, fundraising - some grants, Federation money, and mostly parents. But the parents giving money are fully aware that they're subsidizing tuitions - it's not "hidden" in other charges

I agree. But if someone could pay, and chooses not to, the money has to come from someone else.

As I've said, I think it's a personal conscience issue.

But pretending that someone else isn't covering your obligation shows a horrendous lack of hakaras hatov.

amother

Orchid

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 5:25 pm

amother [ Brown ] wrote:

OP, I'm scratching my head as why you keep on posting how you spend your money. Who cares????
It's weird.

Yep, very weird!
Don't we have enough of those threads? "They don't pay full tuition and go on vacation"
Rolling Eyes

amother

Slateblue

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 5:26 pm

simcha2 wrote:

Of course.

Whatever it costs, less what is raised, must be paid by the families whose kids attend. And if Shlomo's parents pay less, that means that Yehuda's parents pay more; its a zero-sum game. And while Yehuda's parents may be fine with paying more for kids who can't afford, they may be less than pleased if they find out that the families who "can't afford" actually have a more lavish lifestyle than they do.

33055

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 5:26 pm

No one wants to pay tuition for other people unless they are super rich which is why the schools must extort the money from other parents.

I always paid full tuition and sent to a school that 3/4 of the parents were on scholarship. The large majority of parents owned large houses with big mortgages and drove late model cars and dressed fancy and went on lavish vacations.

There's something distorted with a system that makes honest people pay for other's luxuries. A full half my tuition dollars supported other people's large life styles.

Ask each individual parent who can afford it if they would mind paying an extra $6000 a year per child to educate Jewish kids whose parents couldn't afford basics. Most would probably have compassion and want to contribute.

Now ask each individual parent who can afford it if they want to transfer $6000 per child per to families so they could go on nice vacations or buy nice sheitals or have late model cars or dress fancy. No normal person would agree to this.

Schools must force parents to participate in this unfair wealth transfer.

OP, if this is what the school said you must pay, good for you. My only suggestion would be to go on a cheaper vacation and bank some money if that wouldn't result in a higher tuition.

mig100

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 5:28 pm

simcha2 wrote:

I'll bite.

I think you have to do what's right for your family. I also think that you have to recognize that someone out there is subsidizing (ie, paying for) the tuition you are choosing not to pay. And that person may not be going on vacation in order to do so. If you're comfortable with that equation, good for you. But don't expect everyone else to be comfortable with it.

ill bit back- jsut for fun of it- not that I care how anyone spends their money

who says someone is paying her tuition???? maybe she is still paying more than the cost of her child eductaion??

ex: if op is paying 7k and the cost per child less (ei total cost of running school devided by how many kids are in the school is less than 7k)- is 6k) she is still paying HER childs tuition AND subsidizing other childrens tuition too???

anyone follow??

anyone agree???

amother

Rose

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 5:29 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

So we choose to send to a school we’re tuition is about $1,000 a month. When asking for a tuition break we listed our middle class income with all of our expenses and vacations. We also stated that we were comfortable paying $730 a month. The tuition board approved our $730. Am I supposed to feel bad that technically I could pay the $1000, but be very budgeted elsewhere?

I’d say your children’s tuition and education costs should come first.

mig100

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 5:29 pm

op in short heres your answer

those who pay less tuition than you - will say what you are doing is perfectly fine and its none of anyones business how you spend money

those- who pay more or full tuition- will attack you

have fun!

mig100

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 5:31 pm

agreer wrote:

If you get a discount, you are probably paying a much fairer share of tuition for YOU and subsidizing fewer families.
Take your discount and run.

NEVER let anyone make you feel bad that you got a discount. You were being overcharged initially.

thanks- you said it in fewer words than me- exactly!

simcha2

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 5:32 pm

mig100 wrote:

That point was already made by babypink upthread.

It doesn't matter. She has an obligation, she is choosing (not can't) to fulfill it. Someone else is making up the difference and fulfilling her obligation for her.

Edited to add - and as noted up thread, also not necessarily the case. Some schools charge either the actual cost, or less than the actual cost and rely on fundraising

Last edited by simcha2 on Mon, Jul 29 2019, 5:34 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Rose

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 5:33 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

This is where my post originated is someone subsidizing my tuition if our school is a standard Bais Yaakov with above average tuition then what our community is used to. Yes I choose to spend this $4k on vacations rather then jewelry, sheitels, clothing, home improvement .......that other may deem non luxurys (besides jewelry obviously).

What makes you think vacations are less of a luxury than sheitels, jewelry, etc.? And I’d say a sheitel is a necessity, not a luxury, unless you’re buying 4 of them at $4,000 each... yeah, I know some people will say vacations are a “necessity” for mental health. I know plenty of people who don’t think so...

mig100

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 5:34 pm

amother [ Slateblue ] wrote:

That's almost certainly not true. In fact, it is far more likely that even full tuition doesn't cover the cost of education, and that every child depends upon donations and fundraising to some extent. That said, however, the more that those who could afford, with some belt tightening, receive, the less that is available for those with even greater need. So its still taking away funding from those less fortunate.

Tuition of $1000 per month, 10 months, 20 kids per class = $240,000 per class. Factor in 2 teachers and 2 assistant teachers, books, desks, other equipment, cleaning staff, administrators, heat, insurance, repairs, and whatever else ... that doesn't sound like nearly enough.

really??? are you working in financial office of a school -otherwise I have a very hard time beleiving that.

I have not done the math- 240k sounds like waaaay more than enough to pay a few teachers their measly salary. besides most schools I know have more than 20 kids in a class

ok- now im really bowing out of this for now. lll be back tomorrow

have fun everyone!!

amother

Rose

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 5:35 pm

simcha2 wrote:

As I've written many times on imamother I think spending on expensive sheitals, clothing etc. is not tznius. And I think if someone is not prioritizing their obligations (rent, tuition, food etc.) they are doing so on someone else's dime.

When we were struggling we didn't have cleaning help, take out etc. until we were able to cover our other bills (including tuition and shul bill) first. Because taking a reduction is the same as someone else paying for you.

I'm sure others in similar financial situations as us, took the reduction and spent the difference in discretionary items. Good for them. I never wanted to live off of someone else.

If you're comfortable no need to ask for others to support you. But know, that someone else is paying for your vacation.

This might also apply to people who are being supported by parents and then spend on luxuries.