We go on vacations and have a tuition break

Cheiny

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 2:36 pm

JoyInTheMorning wrote:

I'm with simcha2. We pay full tuition, which is extremely high. There is no money for vacation. There is no money for day camp of sleepaway camp. There is no money for cleaning help. A large percentage of the kids in my kids school get a reduction in tuition, and nearly everyone goes on vacation every year. I feel that I am doing the right thing, but it's hard not to resent those who take advantage of the system while we don't have things that many others do. Then again, I usually try to keep my perspective. We are not poor. We have a nice though small house. We are not going hungry. I just try to stay out of conversations where people talk about their vacations, their house renovations, and their cleaning help.

That’s very admirable and don’t worry, Hashem sees and will reward you.

amother

Slateblue

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 2:43 pm

mig100 wrote:

ill bit back- jsut for fun of it- not that I care how anyone spends their money

who says someone is paying her tuition???? maybe she is still paying more than the cost of her child eductaion??

ex: if op is paying 7k and the cost per child less (ei total cost of running school devided by how many kids are in the school is less than 7k)- is 6k) she is still paying HER childs tuition AND subsidizing other childrens tuition too???

anyone follow??

anyone agree???

The cost per child in NYC public schools is $24,173 (including central costs https://www.politico.com/state.....89344), $20,358 in Yonkers, and $21,413 in New Rochelle. That's with only one set of teachers (no limudei kodesh) and 32 students per class (1 teacher) in the lower grades (NYC).

And yet you somehow believe that $10,000 in tuition far exceeds actual costs, and is subsidizing other students?

Raisin

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 3:10 pm

I think its fine. If you are honest with the school, and they see the Cohens make $100000 a year and you make $100000 a year and you both have 6 kids, you go on vacation, the Cohens have a big house and cleaning help but never go on vacation. Everyone gets to choose how to spend their money. The problem is the Levys who make $200000 a year, go on 3 vacations, have a huge house, nice cars, cleaning help and nanny and are asking for the same tuition discount as you and the Cohens.

Also, if vacation means flying to see your elderly parents in another city twice a year, I wouldn't even count that.

amother

Taupe

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 3:25 pm

amother [ Slateblue ] wrote:

About half the cost of running a school comes from the government. The other half comes from tuition and fund raising. If it cost $15,000 a pupil, $5000 comes from other parents

Private schools, for the most part, aren't making pension contributions, paying for a swollen bureaucracy, paying union salaries and giving union perks like health insurance.

amother

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 3:28 pm

amother [ Blue ] wrote:

Op, are you trying to create conflict here by stating that? What is your reason to post this information? To creat sides or are you really interested in our opinion?

I am genuinely interested to here all sides to this I am wondering why the board did ok our reduction. While I do commend the imamother who posted that they pay full tuition but have zero cleaning help don’t send their kids to Daycamp or sleepaway camp for me those things are necessity so I don’t find that to be my aspiration.

amother

Cerise

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 3:31 pm

JoyInTheMorning wrote:

Life choices are not the same for everyone. For some, living and breathing a bit is very critical too. It's not like we have 1-2 kids and we pay their way and then we get to move on. We B"H have large families, and we pay their way for close to 30 years before they all grow up, and then we still marry them off as well. Having a bit of breathing space intertwined here and there, relaxing occasionally, or taking a bit of help, or buying a nice sheitel, etc., is very important to keep our energy flowing and maintaining a healthy mindset and body through the years. Now, not everyone needs it to the same degree, but every person is entitled to make their personal choice to create a personal space for themselves. All work and struggles with no outlet often leads to negative results. For you, doing what it takes to pay full tuition even with hardships gives you a peace of mind or a sense of self-respect, and that give you your personal satisfaction. For others, paying full tuition with hardships and no outlets would affect their self-respect and peace of mind, and they need something else to give them a taste of satisfaction during the drudgery of life.

And the tuition boards understand that. Some sort of quality of life is allowed for families. As long as its not overdone and done within reason, they don't begrudge anyone. Proof of that is the OP. She laid it all out on the table, and they seemingly accepted her offer without much negotiation. And if it honestly bothers you to the extent that you avoid any discussions about vacations, why are you begrudging yourself? Talk to your board, and they may wholeheartedly grant your request.

Yiddishe lifestyle is not easy. There are so many obligations and duties. Are we truly not allowed to have any outlet in life before we reach our 60s?

33055

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 3:31 pm

Raisin wrote:

The problem is when the Cohens make $100,000 and take out a huge mortgage on a large house and lease two large late model cars, so they have little discretionary income and the Levys make $100,000 and are renting a modest home and driving beat up minivans. The Levys have lots of discretionary income which they want to use to save for a down payment. Instead they are forced to subsidize the Cohens who are building equity in their house while the Levys are stuck in their basement apartment.

amother

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 3:40 pm

amother [ Rose ] wrote:

What makes you think vacations are less of a luxury than sheitels, jewelry, etc.? And iujuI’d say a sheitel is a necessity, not a luxury, unless you’re buying 4 of them at $4,000 each... yeah, I know some people will say vacations are a “necessity ” for mental health. I know plenty of people who don’t think so...

It is definitely not less of a luxury at all it is just the way I would rather spend our money. And again not that it makes a difference but just to get a clearer picture this is basically what our vacations look like:
3 days in New Hampshire or Pennsylvania with the kids $1500
Week away without the kids $ 2500

amother

Cerise

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 3:40 pm

Squishy wrote:

Such scenarios are in all aspects of life. For example, compare the poor family on the gov't dole, with a middle class family. The poor gets food stamps, welfare, health insurance, heating assistance & cell phone service (as least in NY), and they use their personal income (how little it may be) to treat themselves. The middle class family is stuck paying taxes, gets no help from the gov't and usually ends up struggling just to cover the monthly expenses.

There's always going to be those who take advantage or maximize a situation to their benefit in every system & every setup. There's nothing that can be done to regulate that. It's pointless to evaluate a system based on those who utilize all the loopholes. We can appeal to people's sense of right and wrong but that's about it.

33055

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 4:45 pm

amother [ Cerise ] wrote:

Within a parent body of a school, it's easy to comprehend the direct transfer of wealth from the Levys to the Chohens.

It's easy for me to see the cost of my county tax (propery) being outrageous because of illegal immigrants getting free health care and the high Medicaid rate among the frum. The high school taxes are easy to see also. We are educating the children of illegal immigrants. This is a direct cost to me I pay annually. Local taxes are easy to see. Kick out the illegal immigrants (even to the next county) and my property taxes would go down dramatically.

The cost of supporting a national underclass are not so easy to see. It would take serious number crunching to feel that cost.

amother

Pumpkin

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 4:58 pm

Squishy wrote:

Did you just refer to your frum neighbours as ‘the underclass’

amother

Pearl

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 5:57 pm

amother [ Cerise ] wrote:

Are these the kinds of justifications people make before getting paid off the books or other not ok business practices?

amother

Fuchsia

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 6:12 pm

I don't want to take over the thread, but this is a related question: I live in an out-of-town place with 1 local school and the board approved a tuition break for my 4 children who will be in school too, but not as much as I asked for. Question is do I have a right to appeal it? My lifestyle is as follows: I don't live on bread and water, but I shop sales for food (though I sometimes buy things like cookies & ice cream), bake my own challah, get a lot of hand me down clothing for the children, don't really spend much on myself. In general I am a careful spender. I am a stay at home mom with 2 children at home, we take kids on day trips sometimes. This summer I sent my 4 older kids to a minimum of day camp (between 2 and 4 weeks) as I felt it was appropriate for them to have a bit of social outlets (I've previously kept them home all summer & it wasn't good for them socially-they are the shy/lonely left out types) and they are home the rest of the summer. My husband is very hardworking, comes home late most days and is working on Sundays also. I used to have a part-time job at home, but could not handle all the pressure of that and my household responsibilities, so recently quit. We have some savings and try to save a little each year. Does every last penny we earn have to go for tuition? Who decides what is a reasonable amount that we can afford? I'd be very happy if there was some sort of formula - based on income or assets, this is how we calculate your tuition burden - but I don't think there is, is it reasonable for me to appeal their decision?

amother

Periwinkle

Mon, Jul 29 2019, 6:14 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

This is where my post originated is someone subsidizing my tuition if our school is a standard Bais Yaakov with above average tuition then what our community is used to. Yes I choose to spend this $4k on vacations rather then jewelry, sheitels, clothing, home improvement .......that other may deem non luxurys (besides jewelry obviously).

I spend about $1k on vacation every other year and mostly stuff that I'd spend on any way in the same amount of time. Tuition at our school is also about $1k a month per child. We applied for a break and were denied. I have no idea who we're going to pay it. I don't own a home to do improvements on and I definitely don't spend that kind of money yearly on Shaitels clothing and jewelry. So like others said, if you are comfortable with others doing without to subsidize your vacation you have your answer. Just don't flaunt it.