S/O Foster Care System

naturalmom5

Mon, Aug 19 2019, 9:57 am

amother [ Black ] wrote:

I don't know where you think is a better place to move to regarding citizens' rights and freedom of religion. But if you are that concerned maybe you should start looking around.
Because we have it pretty good considering we are still in galus.

Didn't they say that in Hungary 1942

amother

Lemon

Mon, Aug 19 2019, 10:01 am

naturalmom5 wrote:

Once we are talking support groups
I was at numerous group meetings for parents that were being victimized

Many many of them had children with NO hospital records
No injuries at all
No medical issues

Often what happens , a neighbor or hostile ex spouse or know-it-all relative calls DYFS

If your house isn't 100% perfect they will open a case

Then once a lot of resources are spent
DYFS will fight to the death for TPR to justify their involvement and jobs

There are often frum people at these meetings
It's more prevalent than you think

To the uninitiated it's very easy to say why would DYFS do it if not warranted

I'm very happy about the education crisis
Eventually the govt will decide most yeshiva education is neglect

Then a lot of people will unfortunately get what's coming to them

Unfortunately, you have no way of knowing that.

People always claims that they did nothing wrong -- nothing wrong with beating your kid so they have welts if they misbehave. Maybe their house was a little messy -- dog feces all over the floors, rats, no heat. I've met some of these people. They actually believe they've done no wrong.

There are simply not enough resources in the system for children to be removed from homes on a routine basis absent the most egregious forms of abuse.

amother

Oak

Mon, Aug 19 2019, 10:05 am

#BestBubby wrote:

When a child is removed from a parent who is a drug addict and not providing proper care - are there actual charges laid?

You seem to have two very different issues here.

1. Removing children from their parents
2. Putting those children into foster care.

From all that you have written - you actually don't seem to be so upset about removing children from their parents. You mainly have an issue with the treatment children get in foster care.

80% of children having bad outcome from foster care has to consider the life of the child before foster care.... which by definition - wasn't good.

#BestBubby

Mon, Aug 19 2019, 10:07 am

amother [ Lemon ] wrote:

NOT TRUE! There is unlimited resources ($$$) to take away children because the Federal Government is paying for it. States make a PROFIT on every child they take away. And States make even more $$$ for every child they adopt to strangers (but not a relative).

NOT TRUE that only the most egregious forms of abuse have children taken away.

WHY do you think the government wants SECRET trials, SEALED evidence and NO Jury?
Because the government does NOT have real evidence of abuse and if there was real due process (Public Trial, Public evidence, Jury) the government would not be able to take away the vast majority of the children that are currently being "legally" kidnapped - and destroyed!

amother

Oak

Mon, Aug 19 2019, 10:09 am

#BestBubby wrote:

The role of the jury is to decide if the evidence supports the charges against the parents.

And if the abuse/neglect is severe enough to justify removal from parents, given the fact that foster care is dangerous and 80% of foster children have a bad outcome as adults.

Due Process is the right to have a Public Trial, with Unsealed Evidence so that the Public can monitor the government and make sure people are not found guilty without proper evidence.

And a Jury Trial - because judges are government employees so our Founding Fathers said the people should be judged by a jury and not by a judge (government) in the most serious cases. And taking away children is like a Death Sentence! And taking children from parents is also likely to cause those children serious harm - unless it was absolutely necessary.

Due Process is not the right to have a Public Trial.

Are children property of their parents?

and you are just rambling now.

#BestBubby

Mon, Aug 19 2019, 10:11 am

amother [ Oak ] wrote:

80% of children having bad outcome from foster care has to consider the life of the child before foster care.... which by definition - wasn't good.

I answered this many times. There were three studies comparing outcomes of children with "some" maltreatment. 18,000 - 23,000 children. And the studies showed that children who were put in foster care had a MUCH Higher Rate of unemployment, in jail, teen pregnancy, homelessness and death than children who were left with parents - with some "maltreatment".

I repeat MUCH HIGHER rates - it was not even close.

Which means children should only be removed from parents for severe abuse/neglect.
85% of children removed from homes there is NO allegation of physical abuse or s-xual abuse. 85% are removed for "neglect" which could mean anything or nothing!

#BestBubby

Mon, Aug 19 2019, 10:15 am

amother [ Oak ] wrote:

Due Process is not the right to have a Public Trial.

Are children property of their parents?

and you are just rambling now.

The Sixth Amendment guarantees the right to a PUBLIC Trial by Jury.

Are children the property of government? If yes, then we are SLAVES.

amother

Oak

Mon, Aug 19 2019, 10:15 am

#BestBubby wrote:

So basically - your entire issue is that the threshold of removing children from their homes is too low. Right?

so all you need is some new guidelines that where children are left with their parents longer - as given that we remove children from homes for their protection - we often just make things worse.

#BestBubby

Mon, Aug 19 2019, 10:17 am

Here is more evidence of CPS corruption. I know the former child abuse victims will not accept all the evidence in the world but this is for others who may be following this thread:

Dad vs CPS - 2016 CPS lies in court - Houston judge sanctions on CPS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdK6_Q8Df4c

Dad vs CPS - judge orders Largest sanctions against CPS November 9, 2019 -Bright Family Case Video2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ry4SAbgXXc

CPS loses in court
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GwCpDd0I7c

CPS Corruption? Attorneys, Professors, and Judges Speak Out!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kv42L1XkCBY

CPS in Court Case, Can CPS Lie to Take Your Children? ( ASFA )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii0OmbwfaoE

Texas judge bans CPS from interfering with families! We need more of this!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkPEARMy6iM

amother

Oak

Mon, Aug 19 2019, 10:19 am

#BestBubby wrote:

The Sixth Amendment guarantees the right to a PUBLIC Trial by Jury.

Are children the property of government? If yes, then we are SLAVES.

The children aren't property of anyone.

The six amendment isn't a due process amendment.

Are the CPS cases criminal cases? Removing children form a home is not punishment for a crime.

#BestBubby

Mon, Aug 19 2019, 10:21 am

amother [ Oak ] wrote:

New guidelines won't help. CPS breaks the law.

Our Founding Fathers were very smart. They knew the best way to protect people from being unjustly persecuted by the government was: A PUBLIC TRIAL (that means unsealed evidence) and a Trial by JURY.

The fact that the government insists on a SECRET trial, SEALED evidence and NO Jury should alert you that there is no real evidence of abuse to justify most child removals.

amother

Oak

Mon, Aug 19 2019, 10:23 am

#BestBubby wrote:

You are discussing children as if they are property. They aren't property.

I'm going back to this - you strongly believe that the threshold for removing children from their homes is too low. Agree or disagree.

Editing to add - repeating yourself in all caps has the unintended effect of diminishing your view point. Just a heads up.

#BestBubby

Mon, Aug 19 2019, 10:25 am

amother [ Oak ] wrote:

The children aren't property of anyone.

The six amendment isn't a due process amendment.

Are the CPS cases criminal cases? Removing children form a home is not punishment for a crime.

There has to be somebody who has Authority over children - it's either parents or government.

The Supreme Court has issued many rulings that it is PARENTS who have custody of children and make decisions for children - not Government - unless the parent is proven Unfit.

Abusing and Neglecting Children IS a Crime. Therefore, Parents are entitled to all the Rights that criminals have. The Reason Parents are NOT charged with the Crime of abuse and neglect is that the government would LOSE in Court when there is a PUblic Trial, Open Evidence and a Jury.!

#BestBubby

Mon, Aug 19 2019, 10:31 am

amother [ Oak ] wrote:

I believe that the threshold of the Law is good - CPS may not remove children without a hearing unless the children are in imminent danger of death or injury.

The problem is not the guideline - but that CPS violates the guideline. Some examples given are CPS removing baby because parents took baby to another hospital for second opinion (No danger), CPS removing children because parents made the children do homework for hours (NO danger), CPS removing children because father was uncooperative (NO danger).

amother

Oak

Mon, Aug 19 2019, 10:34 am

#BestBubby wrote:

Help me understand where Due Process comes into removing children from the homes of their parents?

can you give me the criminal citation for child neglect? IE what is the law?

amother

Oak

Mon, Aug 19 2019, 10:36 am

#BestBubby wrote:

if that is in fact the law - sounds like you don't like it at all. you would like no child to removed from the home until its a jury determines its required.

amother

Pumpkin

Mon, Aug 19 2019, 10:38 am

#BestBubby wrote:

The parents aren't given automatic custody of their children. They must go to court to establish custody. A grandparent can go to court and can get temporary custody. They can do this on something as simple as an order of protection given ex parte.

You don't understand the court system. I think you experinced something close to you, and the verdict was not what you considered correct.

You keep stating misinformation on this thread and the other.

I stopped following this several pages ago, but your last post caught my eye.

#BestBubby

Mon, Aug 19 2019, 10:38 am

amother [ Lemon ] wrote:

And YOU have NO WAY of knowing if CPS took away the children unjustly.

Because our Constitutional Rights are being violated with SECRET Trials, SECRET evidence and NO Jury. Which IS evidence the Government is Covering Up that children are taken away with no real evidence.

If abusing/neglecting children is a CRIME why aren't the parents tried in criminal court?
Because then the Government would have to have a Public Trial, Open Evidence and a Jury.
In Criminal Court the Government would NOT be able to prove abuse/neglect and would Lose.

Parents are found guilty of Abuse/Neglect - but not in CRIMINAL Court but in a Corrupt Court where their Constitutional Rights to Public Trial, Open Evidence and Jury are taken away.

amother

Lemon

Mon, Aug 19 2019, 10:41 am

#BestBubby wrote:

The Sixth Amendment guarantees the right to a PUBLIC Trial by Jury.

Are children the property of government? If yes, then we are SLAVES.

Actually, that's not true.

There is not always a right to a trial by jury. Its only SERIOUS CRIMINAL cases under the US Constitution.

The state may guarantee the right of jury in other cases, as may federal laws.

Moreover, family court is generally open to the public.

https://www.nytimes.com/2011/1......html

However, records may not be publicly available. Sort of like divorce records.

#BestBubby

Mon, Aug 19 2019, 10:41 am

amother [ Pumpkin ] wrote:

The parents aren't given automatic custody of their children. They must go to court to establish custody.

Wrong! Every parent automatically has custody of their children.

But other people can go to Court to take away custody from parents.

A parent does not have to go to Court to get custody of their children. Their children are theirs from birth - until a Judge takes away those children with No Due Process.