S/O Foster Care System

#BestBubby

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 6:30 pm

I don't think Foster Care should be "dismantled" because there ARE some children who need to be removed from. home. I think Foster Care must be reformed:

1. Public Trials by Jury. Standard should be "beyond a reasonable doubt".

2. No removal of children without evidence of physical or s-xual abuse. (Today 85% are removed for "neglect" which could mean very little).

3. Children should be given to relatives (grandparents, aunt) and not strangers.

Ravenclaw

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 6:50 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

1. Most abusers wouldn’t pass that test. Very hard for a little kid to collect evidence, take secret photographs and recordings etc... unless you have an idea for that?

2. So neglect is totally off the table? There are kids who are left alone for days while their parents go get high...that’s not a problem? And evidence of zxual abuse—are you serious? Who is going to go get a rape test kit for the seven year old—the abusive parent?

3. Already done. Placement is only done with strangers when there is no family willing to take in the kids.

#BestBubby

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 6:50 pm

Can you change the Poll question to: Should Foster Care System be Reformed?

I think everyone agrees that sometimes children do need to be removed from the home. The question is if children are removed when not absolutely necessary the children are put in grave danger and have horrible outcomes. Therefore, the system should be reformed to ensure that only children who are in real danger are removed - and not just children with somewhat dysfunctional homes.

amother

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 6:51 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

1-Regarding trial by jury, not all litigants choose a trial, sometimes they want the judge to issue a decision without a trial but that is a strategy that would depend on the case and lawyer. And some cases would be under Jane Doe or John Doe so you would not have know their names anyway which should automatically be the case if minors are involved.

2-Sometimes there is no evidence and sometimes the evidence is hard to see. There are many people being abused by individuals that come across as charming and charismatic to outsiders but are abusive to their family members behind closed doors. Think about people who are covert narcissists and their victims who suffer from the abuse even when there is no "evidence". Munchausen by Proxy falls into this category. Children shouldnt have to suffer their entire lives just because there is no hard evidence.

3- There is not always family members in the picture and even if there was there is no guarantee that the family member would provide better care than non-family foster parents. After all, dysfunction typically (but not always) runs in the family so its not always best to keep the child in a dysfunctional family if the relatives are just as bad as the parents.

Ravenclaw

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 6:53 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

That is the system now!!!!!!!

Kids are not removed for dirty house, no homework done, as you previously said.

I feel like we are just shouting at each other now. Whatever.

#BestBubby

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 6:56 pm

Ravenclaw wrote:

1. CPS collects the evidence. If children are physically abusing children there is evidence: welts, burns, broken bones, bruises, etc.

2. Neglect is not totally off the table - but doesn't call for emergency removal either. Let a Jury decide if the neglect is bad enough to warrant removal.

CPS is responsible for proving s-xual abuse. I'm OK with a warrant for a hidden camera in home, if necessary.

3. 70% of foster kids are with strangers. Many stories of grandparents who were denied being foster parents with no cause. Federal Government gives Thousands of $$$ if foster children are adopted by Strangers - but ZERO if foster child is adopted by family! Can you explain that, Ravenclaw?

#BestBubby

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 7:02 pm

Ravenclaw wrote:

That is the system now!!!!!!!

Kids are not removed for dirty house, no homework done, as you previously said.

I feel like we are just shouting at each other now. Whatever.

Today there are SECRET hearings - so Ravenclaw - You Do Not Know why children are being removed - NOBODY DOES!

There are many stories online of parents stating that they're children were removed for very minor reasons - like the story I posted of the parents who had their baby taken because they went to a different hospital for a second opinion! And what about the Justine Polletier case?

There is a Reason why our Founding Fathers said NO SECRET TRIALS!

happyone

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 7:04 pm

I'm still.disturbed by the "perfect Hart Family" where two white moms adopted 6 disadvantaged black children and went on social media presenting as the ideal foster and adoption system where love puts all differences aside. well, they drove all six children to their death when neighbors contacted ACS and opened a can of worms to expose the most failed foster system in three seperate states. the system has alot to be desired ! google Hart family California for more details.

#BestBubby

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 7:09 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

1. If the parents want Trial by Judge that's fine. But the parents should have a RIGHT to Trial by Jury. I'm OK with Jane Doe/John Doe - as long as there is a public trial and the evidence is open - nothing "sealed".

2. If there is NO EVIDENCE how can government take children away with NO EVIDENCE? Because they have a "feeling"?
You can get evidence with "Munchausen by Proxy" - sometimes with hidden cameras and sometimes by removing the child and seing if the child is greatly improved.

3. The Law says that if there are willing family members with no criminal record the child MUST be given to the family. But CPS breaks this law all the time and nothing is done.

southernbubby

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 7:16 pm

If we could prevent family breakdown, drug and alcohol addiction, and homelessness, there would be very few children who need foster care.
I do agree that family placements should be given the same consideration as stranger adoption. My brother's adopted children get free medical, dental, mental health, college tuition within the state and my brother gets a stipend until the kid is 21 as long as the kid is a student. These boys had no capable family members so they ended up in foster care.

#BestBubby

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 7:17 pm

amother [ Black ] wrote:

Unless you have hidden cameras in every nook and cranny, no way to know for sure nothing is missed.
And just how do you propose all of these cameras will be installed.

And it's a bit naive to believe every horror story you read on the internet. Obviously people will be less than honest if they have something to hide.

So CPS accuses YOU of s-xual abuse and gets to take away your kids without having to show any evidence??? Then CPS can take away kids from ANYBODY WITH NO EVIDENCE - that is crazy.

There is a Jury and Let CPS prove there was s-xual Abuse.

#BestBubby

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 7:19 pm

happyone wrote:

Yes, six black children were taken from their moms and given to two white lesbians who murdered them.

amother

Pumpkin

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 7:25 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

Check out this article:

In 32 States, Social Workers Absolutely Immune for Judicial Misconduct
https://www.heritagedefense.or.....dges/

That means CPS is allowed to LIE in Court against parents - and no penalty.

Tell me again how we are not living in tyranny!

Between this thead and the other thread, it shows that this is a hot botton close to you making you passionate about this subject, but possibly not unbiased and not understanding alternatives. You don't understand what preponderance of the evidence means.

Also, family courts are set up the way they are because they don't want to expose people's privacy to open trials. No one wants this. Can you imagine putting little kids on the stand in open court rooms? That's just cruel.

Most cases end with settlements today. People don't want the expense of trials. The state doesn't want the expense of trials. You can appeal ALJ's rulings, but it's unlikely to be overturned.

The courts get things wrong all the time. Look at project innocence. And that's after trials.