S/O Foster Care System

amother

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 10:35 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

I am so sorry you were abused.
But how do you know you would not have experienced WORSE abuse in foster care?
Foster children are abused, neglected, molested - even killed - at a HIGH rate!
80% of Foster Children have a dismal outcome as adult.

Whats the rate of abused children who are not removed from their home? What is their adulthood like?

FranticFrummie

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 10:47 pm

#BestBubby, my point was that you keep saying that healthy kids go into foster care, and come out messed up.

In my case, and in the case of most of the other girls I knew in the home, it was the exact opposite. We all came in under different circumstances, but we were ALREADY messed up.

It was the FOSTER CARE that made us better, more responsible, hard working, respectful young people who got our lives back on track.

I still recall the time we took in a 12 year old girl, and her 4 year old brother. The foster home could take in a boy in an emergency, as long as he was 5 or under. My foster mom got very attached to these kids. When the brother and sister got adopted together, into a lovely home where the new parents spoke their native language, my foster mom was happy, but devastated. She was thrilled that they got to have a forever home with people who understood their culture, but she cried her heart out when they left. She truly loved them.

Even more heartbreaking, was that the court wouldn't let her have any further contact with them, so the kids could bond with the new parents. She wouldn't have any way of following up on their progress.

You can't tell me that all foster homes are evil, and that all foster kids are headed to lives of abject misery. Maybe some, but not all.

Your use of bold, CAPS, and hyperbole are just making people want to scroll past your posts. You're coming across as hysterical and unhinged. Try actually listening to people for a change.

behappy2

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 10:50 pm

BestBubby There has been lots ofchange to the foster care system over the last 150 years. In the 1800s kids were allowed to work, to be slaves, child rights wasn't a thing. The first child to be placed in foster case was in the mid 1800's. Before we understood the science of attachment (I think 1950's) orphanages were much more common. Lots of kids died from lack of maternal love. Over the last 50 years there has been a struggle to balance both the knowledge of how important it is for a child to live with their attachment figure and also judge possible safety concerns, needs met etc...I was just recently watching a documentary on feral children, children who have been neglected so much that they have no language and can't walk properly, aren't toilet trained. Neglect is the other side of the coin of abuse. I see you have a lot of information on one half of the story. A wise person always listens to both sides.

southernbubby

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 10:55 pm

simba wrote:

#bestbubby, you repeat many times how awful the outcome of foster homes are, and I believe those numbers. Do you think it’s the same for frum kids taken away from their parents and put in other frum homes? Whether the foster family is family or another frum family do the numbers change?

I have a feeling that they do. And that’s what the women who were abused here are saying. They wouldn’t have been killed by another frum family. That’s just fear mongering. Please.

I know a frum woman who was in put into foster care as a teen. When she speaks about going home to mother to recover from childbirth, she is referring to the foster mom with whom she is very close.
My brother, who is not frum, is a fierce advocate for his foster and adopted kids, making sure that they get all of the educational, medical, and psychological services that they are entitled to. Those kids are his family.
Yes there are some people who are doing foster care for the wrong reasons and they harm kids but there are also lots of truly dedicated foster parents.

#BestBubby

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 10:56 pm

simba wrote:

Simba, yes frum foster parents are MUCH MUCH MUCH better then general public
(who are often african-american and just doing it for $$$).

If foster parent is a family member (grandparent, aunt) much better than stranger. But CPS often gives to strangers even when there are family members who want children.

But taking child could still be worse than leaving child with parent. Siblings can be split up. Children can be bounced from one home to another. And being taken from parents is TRAUMATIC - even if the parents are not good.

All I am asking for is a Public Trial by Jury so we don't have these crazy stories of children taken away because their parents made them spend too much time on homework, or allowed their children to play outside by themselves or house was messy, etc.

Last edited by #BestBubby on Sun, Aug 18 2019, 10:57 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Vermilion

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 10:57 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

You need to do research and LISTEN and find out what happens to all the kids that remain in abusive homes. I am broken and I will forever be broken. Yes I live a semi normal looking life, I'm married with kids, but even now years later I have serious issues because of the abuse. I will never be fixed. You have no idea what I lived through and you should stop talking because frankly you have no right. I am disgusted with you.

Ravenclaw

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 11:05 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

OMG
I cannot continue this dialogue. That was so racist. You have now lost whatever remaining respect I had for you.

FranticFrummie

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 11:10 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

Simba, yes frum foster parents are MUCH MUCH MUCH better then general public
(who are often african-american and just doing it for $$$).

Wait, WHAT? Please tell me you did not just write this.

I am reporting your post to Yael, for violating the rules of the board.

Are you aware that there are African American Jews? Who post on this board, and might read your nasty accusations? Shame on you!

BTW, when I was trying to adopt, I would take a child of any color. I was told by social workers that I could not adopt a Black child, because they were trying to keep them all in Black homes. There are so many Black children in the foster system, I would have loved to have adopted one or two, but I was not allowed. My adopted daughter has blonde hair and blue eyes. Not because I wanted a designer baby who looked just like me, but because that is the way the system works.

And don't you DARE start going on about how adoption is wrong, because then we will have some serious fighting words. Mad

#BestBubby

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 11:15 pm

1. I am not saying that children should NEVER be taken from their parents. I didn't sign that foster care should be abolished because I understand there ARE times when children must be removed from the home.

2. I am not saying that all foster parents are evil abusers. Many are saints.

3. I AM saying that CPS often removes children without a valid reason. There are former CPS workers who wrote books saying that CPS is a corrupt system and that putting children into foster care harmed children.

4. I AM saying that to PROTECT children from the trauma of being taken from their parents, from the RISK of abuse in foster care that there be a Public Trial by Jury.
If children are in Danger from their parents - show the EVIDENCE.

I don't think it is too much to ask that there be public trial by juries before the government takes away children from parents - and puts children into homes that are very likely far worse than then the parents!

southernbubby

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 11:16 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

Just wanted to say that grandparents and other relatives often don't live stable lives themselves or they don't have a spare bedroom which is important to CPS. There are often reasons why they can't have custody. I don't know if CPS will give a child to a relative who smokes or who has unstable people who sleep in their homes.

behappy2

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 11:19 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

Try to come up with three reasons that we do not have this system that you are suggesting. (Trial by jury and evidence)

FranticFrummie

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 11:20 pm

southernbubby wrote:

Grandparents can also be in fragile health, or live in a 55 and up condo, or a studio apartment, or live in a dangerous neighborhood. Lots of things. Not all grandparents bake cookies and have spotless homes.

#BestBubbie, I'm still waiting for you to backtrack on your blatant racism.

amother

Vermilion

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 11:28 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

There are many cases where Grandparents wanted to take the children but CPS gave the children to strangers without a valid reason. Which is illegal - but happens anyway.

Why are you contradicting yourself? On the thread about Rikki you were against the grandparents having custody and said they should only check up on her while she lives with her parents. At this point I'm starting to feel like you are just arguing for the sake of arguing.

#BestBubby

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 11:28 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Whats the rate of abused children who are not removed from their home? What is their adulthood like?

I don't know the exact rate but per three studies the outcomes of children who stayed in homes with some "maltreatment" were FAR better than the children who were put in foster homes. It wasn't even close.

Here are the three studies:

1. https://www.aeaweb.org/article......1583
2. https://drive.google.com/file/...../view
3. http://cca-ct.org/Study%20Impa.....v.pdf

amother

Vermilion

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 11:29 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

These studies are garbage, I know far too many children who stayed in their abusive homes and every last one of them is broken and not able to fully function.

#BestBubby

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 11:31 pm

amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:

I just asked if it were POSSIBLE for Rikki to live with her parents with the grandparents having legal custody (medical & educational decisions) and providing supervision.

Not a contradiction to the point that if children cannot live with parents, the next best place is usually with grandparents. (usually - not always).

#BestBubby

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 11:36 pm

I think adoption is great. I am Pro-Life and admire women who give their babies up for adoption rather than abort. I admire those women who give up their children for adoption when they know they cannot provide a good home.

Adoption is better than kids being bounced around in foster care.

BUT - what CPS calls "adoption" is often just a "business" where couples get a lot of
$$$ from CPS for "adopting" and CPS continues to pay for the children. These couples adopt many children - it's a kind of mini-orphanage (groups home). Many children in these kind of adoptions said there was abuse/neglect and the "parents" were just doing it for the $$$.

southernbubby

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 11:42 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

There are many cases where Grandparents wanted to take the children but CPS gave the children to strangers without a valid reason. Which is illegal - but happens anyway.

Sometimes the CPS opened a file on the grandparents a generation before. In one of the examples that I used, that was the reason that they could not have custody of the grandchild.

southernbubby

Sun, Aug 18 2019, 11:47 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

My brother adopted from foster care because he wanted a family but was too old for an infant. Older kids and teens were best suited for the older single dad and the money makes it easier to work less and put the time into the kids.