Home

S/o public school forum thread
Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next  Last >>
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling

View latest: 24h 48h 72h


Aylat




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Aug 20 2019, 2:34 pm
PinkFridge wrote:
Yes, your experience is interesting.
I was also blown away by seminary. But I'm probably older than you which makes your story even more compelling.


I'm in my 30s. But why would age make a difference here?
Back to top

PinkFridge




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Aug 20 2019, 2:42 pm
Aylat wrote:
I'm in my 30s. But why would age make a difference here?


Because in some areas, it was more common for frum people to still send their kids to public school. Also, I know a LOT of people in their 50s+ who came from somewhat traditional homes though not frum and there was a strong NCSY that kept them going through high school. Talmud Torahs then were really different than now. Instead of one anemic hour or two where you do the best you can, it was something like 3 days, 6 hours a week and some had fantastic teachers too. If a frum kid in a public school has that kind of chevra, I could see being able to get through without succumbing to peer pressure, with a healthy "shtoltz" (I.e. healthy feelings of pride). I don't know if that exists today, or how much it did 20 years ago.
Back to top

nylon




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Aug 20 2019, 2:42 pm
amother [ Firebrick ] wrote:
My relative went to PS for 6th, 7th and 8th grade.
Her parents hired a kodesh teacher but it wasn't enough to withstand the peer pressure of school and she stopped dressing tziusdik and her language got much worse.

They tried to put her back in a Jewish school for high school but the high schools wouldn't accept her and she had to go to a kiruv high school instead.

She came out of high school very left wing liberal and barely frum.

This kind of post--especially under amother--is exactly why people want a closed forum.
Back to top

amother




Magenta


Post  Tue, Aug 20 2019, 3:25 pm
PinkFridge wrote:
I have a dear friend, not frum, who sends her kids to an excellent private school. There is extensive after school practice, classes, etc.
And to consign teaching gemara to Shabbos, I.e. one day a week instead of time devoted daily or as close as possible won't leave a child with the skills he should get to feel that he has a cheilek in Torah. I'm talking about a bright kid who's going to p.s. for enrichment and a solid education. You need a plan to make sure the child - boy or girl - will have a vibrant connection. Will not just know the halachas and how tos, but have commitment and connection.

Learning gemara daily in school doesn't (or rather, shouldn't) make the child feel he has a cheilek in Torah. It makes him connected to his people/Torah. Even if a guy doesn't continue learning gemara after high school, that doesn't mean he doesn't have a chelek in Torah any more.
Not even talking about what the equivalent for girls would be (please, Hashem, not tznius).
Back to top

PinkFridge




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Aug 20 2019, 3:58 pm
amother [ Magenta ] wrote:
Learning gemara daily in school doesn't (or rather, shouldn't) make the child feel he has a cheilek in Torah. It makes him connected to his people/Torah. Even if a guy doesn't continue learning gemara after high school, that doesn't mean he doesn't have a chelek in Torah any more.
Not even talking about what the equivalent for girls would be (please, Hashem, not tznius).


Why shouldn't it make him feel he has a cheilek in Torah? I don't understand this.
When I went to seminary 100 years ago seminary (not necessarily in EY) was promoted this way: Since it's likely we'd go onto some higher general education, we needed to know that there was more sophisticated learning available for us, I.e. seminary. Yeah, someone going to medical school or really advanced degrees wouldn't be going to seminary for as long, but it was more the concept, that we needed to continue growing. I certainly hope that anyone learning gemara will continue to prioritize learning beyond high school.

As for the equivalent for girls? What I said. Certainly more than learning halacha in her mother's kitchen, as was suggested earlier.
Back to top

PinkFridge




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Aug 20 2019, 4:08 pm
https://www.yutorah.org/sideba.....doxy/

Some of you may not want to let your sons work in Camp Kaylie. They're going to hear some pretty subversive stuff about advanced learning there....(I think it's somewhere like the last ten minutes.)
Back to top

amother




Magenta


Post  Tue, Aug 20 2019, 5:15 pm
PinkFridge wrote:
Why shouldn't it make him feel he has a cheilek in Torah? I don't understand this.
When I went to seminary 100 years ago seminary (not necessarily in EY) was promoted this way: Since it's likely we'd go onto some higher general education, we needed to know that there was more sophisticated learning available for us, I.e. seminary. Yeah, someone going to medical school or really advanced degrees wouldn't be going to seminary for as long, but it was more the concept, that we needed to continue growing. I certainly hope that anyone learning gemara will continue to prioritize learning beyond high school.

As for the equivalent for girls? What I said. Certainly more than learning halacha in her mother's kitchen, as was suggested earlier.

What I meant by that was that it shouldn't EXCLUSIVELY make anyone feel about having a chelek in the Torah. You have it by performing mitzvos and learning anything Torah related, even a parsha sheet or a little midrash says at 40 y old.
Same for girls.
Now, it's fine to want to learn more, but that's not a prerequisite for getting a place in the Torah
Back to top

southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Aug 20 2019, 7:01 pm
I hope that if there are frum kids in public schools that the community will respond with after school programs so that the kids still view themselves as part of the community. Chabad and NCSY should be made aware that there are frum kids in public schools who should not be disenfranchised from the community. Nobody should take for granted that all frum kids are in frum schools because they risk alienating these kids. Because of the high cost of tuition and limited education for learning disabilities, some communities might start to see more families resorting to using public schools.
Back to top

PinkFridge




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Aug 20 2019, 7:22 pm
amother [ Magenta ] wrote:
What I meant by that was that it shouldn't EXCLUSIVELY make anyone feel about having a chelek in the Torah. You have it by performing mitzvos and learning anything Torah related, even a parsha sheet or a little midrash says at 40 y old.
Same for girls.
Now, it's fine to want to learn more, but that's not a prerequisite for getting a place in the Torah


But we shouldn't set our kids up to not have the skills to learn and be motivated to learn.
I can't wrap my head around someone not wanting to give their sons the basic skills and drive to learn.
Of course, if someone has learning issues, or commitments that preclude serious learning (I remember a family member was learning with someone in medical school. That hour chavrusaschaft was sacrosanct for the doctor, with great mesirus nefesh.) or other he shouldn't feel disenfranchised. There are so many important ways to connect. (Yes, I'm using masculine pronouns. I'm not against women learning per se but gemara learning isn't what women in my circles are directed to.)
Kevius itim on some level - like that doctor, it might be weekly - is something really important to consider.
Back to top

sarahmalka




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Aug 20 2019, 11:34 pm
southernbubby wrote:
I hope that if there are frum kids in public schools that the community will respond with after school programs so that the kids still view themselves as part of the community. Chabad and NCSY should be made aware that there are frum kids in public schools who should not be disenfranchised from the community. Nobody should take for granted that all frum kids are in frum schools because they risk alienating these kids. Because of the high cost of tuition and limited education for learning disabilities, some communities might start to see more families resorting to using public schools.


I'm seeing some efforts made in my town to keep including the frum kids that have switched to secular schools. e.g., NCSY is pretty strong (depends on the year), Chabad goes into one of the huge public elementary schools once every week or two for regular programming with the Jewish kids who want it. Also for the kids who have had to switch to public, our Orthodox day school lets those kids join in with all-school events (parties and such), even join some sports teams.
Back to top

southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Aug 20 2019, 11:44 pm
sarahmalka wrote:
I'm seeing some efforts made in my town to keep including the frum kids that have switched to secular schools. e.g., NCSY is pretty strong (depends on the year), Chabad goes into one of the huge public elementary schools once every week or two for regular programming with the Jewish kids who want it. Also for the kids who have had to switch to public, our Orthodox day school lets those kids join in with all-school events (parties and such), even join some sports teams.


Great! Keep them connected!
Back to top

PinkFridge




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Aug 21 2019, 9:21 am
southernbubby wrote:
I hope that if there are frum kids in public schools that the community will respond with after school programs so that the kids still view themselves as part of the community. Chabad and NCSY should be made aware that there are frum kids in public schools who should not be disenfranchised from the community. Nobody should take for granted that all frum kids are in frum schools because they risk alienating these kids. Because of the high cost of tuition and limited education for learning disabilities, some communities might start to see more families resorting to using public schools.


I get the impression that NCSY at least is much stronger in public schools than private schools, for anyone considering private school as a secular option.
Back to top

amother




Beige


Post  Wed, Aug 21 2019, 10:05 am
I went to public high school years ago. There was no davening, which is very important to make one feel connected to Hashem. Of course, there was no Torah and if someone gets Torah learning after school or release time, it does not give it the same importance as learning Torah in a school setting. I belonged to NCSY. Maybe things are different now, but except for some discussion groups or a dvar Torah at meals or gatherings, there was very little Torah learning and what went on with some people at some of the shabbatons and camps was totally not good.
Back to top

smiles42




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Aug 22 2019, 6:52 am
Does anyone use the jewishonlineschool or other online programs to help standardize the curriculum for your ps child?
Back to top

amother




Smokey


Post  Thu, Aug 22 2019, 7:09 am
while I understand there may be reasons such as SN to put a child in public school and while it is possible to supplement and come out with a strong healthy jewish identity it is a fact that socially and culturally the environment in public school is not conducive to this goal, particularly in the older grades in which negative behaviors among the general population become more common. and the vast majority of kids do not want to be different from their peers, not saying they necessarily will join in on negative behaviors but rather speaking here of dress, kashrut, shabbos, Y"T, school calendar shomer neigh and the like. Obviously for a parent the potential benefits would have to heavily outweigh the potential pitfalls and influences. Secular academic success can be more easily supplemented outside of yeshiva if that is the need in some cases. Case by case.
wishing everyone much hatzlocha!
Back to top

#BestBubby




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Aug 22 2019, 5:08 pm
I believe there is an online k-12 public school where one could get a secular education without the negative peer pressure of public school. Also some public schools have a high rate of crime/bullying.
Back to top

southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Aug 22 2019, 5:41 pm
I used to sub in public schools years ago and there were some negative elements there but I never forgot the boy who felt that he just had to tell me that he had put tefillin on that day. It is far from ideal but it isn't an automatic death sentence to frumkeit.
Back to top

naturalmom5




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Aug 22 2019, 5:58 pm
My children both went to PS, due to circumstances that I wanted to discuss in another thread. The thread was locked before I was given the chance to tell my story

Anyway, I find it very ironic, that many of the boys in my son's yeshiva high school before he switched to Public are currently OTD.

Conversely, bh my children are solidly frum, and became more committed in PS, once they got away from the hypocrisy and politics
Back to top

JoyInTheMorning




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Aug 22 2019, 7:22 pm
PinkFridge wrote:
Before anything else, I was really debating putting this under safe haven. I want this to be respectful and not attacking anyone.

Assuming this forum takes off, it's going to be a pretty big tent, from parents who choose ps because of specialized services for sn kids to parents who want a stronger general studies education for their kids. And they'll all need support. So hatzlacha to the moderators!

I want to address the parents who are looking for strong general studies. What are your plans for limudei kodesh? And I was going to ask, who do you see your children becoming? But I know the answer to that: It's, whoever they become and want to become. But what goals do you have for them Jewishly? How do want to seem them living Jewishly? What kind of homes do you want them to create and transmit to their children? What kind of educational and social framework will they need to get from a to b?

Maybe this isn't the place to discuss it. If this thread does develop, I want everyone to be respectful. Tbh, I think that this is the discussion I wanted to have with Magenta Yenta but I was too polite Smile


I considered sending one child to public school. I am not one of the parents you are addressing, in that this would not have been for stronger secular studies, though that would have come as an added advantage. I knew that a school switch was necessary for the spiritual health of my child, frankly, for the life of my child. Some Jewish day schools -- well, some classes in particular -- are horrible, toxic places. I didn't want to experience a tragedy. Unfortunately, in the class that my child left, there have been suicide attempts, hospitalizations due to eating disorders, and stays in rehab due to substance abuse. I knew that what I was seeing in that school was horrific.

I found another Jewish school for my kids, but that isn't the point here. The point is that many of the kids in the original school haven't turned out religious. Or they're religious, but in a very superficial way. Or they're religious, but are weighted down with problems that significantly lower their chances of leading happy lives. Very few of them are particularly learned in Tanach, Gemara, and halacha.

A significant minority of the kids in my community go to public school or some other non-Jewish school. There's not that much choice here, and the choices aren't particularly appealing. What I find interesting is that at least at this point, I am not seeing a big difference in frumkeit, commitment, and Jewish knowledge between those kids that go to non-Jewish schools and those that have gone to the frankly not very good options here.

So I think it's somewhat under informed to think that the questions that you ask should only be asked of those who pull their kids out of Jewish schools for the sake of better general studies. These are questions that all parents have to ask themselves about all their kids, whether they send to Jewish schools or non-Jewish schools. Sending your kids to Yeshiva does not in itself guarantee good results. It may not even dramatically increase the chances of good results. Not in this generation.
Back to top

amother




Papaya


Post  Thu, Aug 22 2019, 7:50 pm
JoyInTheMorning- if you don't mind answering, was this a yeshiva or a day school? I'm sorry for all the parents who have to choose among options that are very not ideal.
Back to top
Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next  Last >> Recent Topics

Page 2 of 4 View latest: 24h 48h 72h


Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling

Related Topics Replies Last Post
What is your immediate reaction to thread titles (Part 3) 1598 Thu, Oct 17 2019, 2:48 pm View last post
Forum for parents of children with severe mental issues?
by amother
2 Wed, Oct 16 2019, 11:18 pm View last post
Semi bought desserts thread 28 Wed, Oct 16 2019, 10:36 pm View last post
Chasan sofer boys school
by amother
8 Sat, Oct 12 2019, 11:26 pm View last post
High school discipline help
by amother
51 Sat, Oct 12 2019, 8:38 pm View last post

Jump to: