Jewish S-x Offender Deported to Arab Yemen - from Israel

Rappel

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 2:14 pm

http://www.israelnationalnews......68232

Discuss. Please source your comments appropriately.

Last edited by Rappel on Sun, Sep 01 2019, 2:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

imasinger

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 2:19 pm

Wow. Glad I'm not the judge who has to decide that case.

I wonder if the comments here might be different if you titled the thread "Teimani convicted child sx offender to be deported from Israel to Yemen."

nchr

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 2:23 pm

I assume it will set a precedent. However, dosen't Israel grant citizenship to all Jews, regardless of criminal history? Or is it different if you offend in the country?

Rappel

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 2:35 pm

nchr wrote:

I assume it will set a precedent. However, dosen't Israel grant citizenship to all Jews, regardless of criminal history? Or is it different if you offend in the country?

I thought so, but I guess not.

https://lawoffice.org.il/en/al.....fety.

I threw this under halachic discussions because I wanted to hear sources which would help me process my feelings over this. On the one hand: pedophilic scum. On the other hand: sending a Jew to Yemen can mean his death, torture, or imprisonment. And from Israel, no less.

What's right? What's true? Would it be different if we lived under a halachic state? Kingdom? If it's not right, then what status would the judge/police hold for doing this, and what would be the correct punishment for pedophilic abuse?

mamsegula

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 2:45 pm

Israeli law gives every Jew the right to Israeli citizenship, unless he poses a threat to society or to the country. Halachically, as long as the Rabbunim would decree a law in the country and it doesn't go against halacha it would be ok. Is there a possible Gilui Arayot situation here where this man should be killed? It's like this man has been put in a serious theorem. Personally, I will sleep better.

Rappel

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 2:45 pm

imasinger wrote:

Yalla. I edited the title, while trying to stay on point.

Raisin

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 2:48 pm

Wow. I also did not know the law of return did not apply if you committed a crime.

Why is that woman who molested girls in a school in Australia (can't recall name) not deported back there to face trail? Was she born in Israel? I don't think the laws of Israel should be different for those born there or not, or because one didn't make aliya officially.

Halachically, I incest would be punishable by death. His crime may or may not be incest according to halacha. (its described as molestation, not rape) But I guess no Israeli is crying over this guy and whatever may happen to him in Yemen. One can also say Israel is protecting its citizens from someone who may harm them. He is a rodef.

The problem is if this rule is extended to other crimes, like drug use or white collar crime or whatever.

Raisin

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 2:49 pm

mamsegula wrote:

Well, there is your answer.

Would you want this guy living next door to you?

Rappel

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 2:49 pm

mamsegula wrote:

I see this as potentially being an act of mesirah, though I'm not baki on the issue.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesirah

Where's Imasoftov when you need her? This is her element.

Sebastian

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 2:51 pm

Raisin wrote:

Why is that woman who molested girls in a school in Australia (can't recall name) not deported back there to face trail? Was she born in Israel? I don't think the laws of Israel should be different for those born there or not, or because one didn't make aliya officially.

bc she's a "chashuv" chassida while he is a "low class" yemenite. Australia is safer than yemen. She should be deported[s]

Last edited by Sebastian on Sun, Sep 01 2019, 6:55 pm; edited 1 time in total

Rappel

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 2:54 pm

Raisin wrote:

Well, there is your answer.

Would you want this guy living next door to you?

Heck no. As far as I'm concerned, child molesters should be bastinadoed until their feet and legs shatter. But I've never yet heard a halachic decision on the issue.

Metukah

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 2:55 pm

Sebastian wrote:

bc she's a [specific chassidus removed] chassida while he is a "low class" yemenite. Australia is safer than yemen. She should be deported

AFAIK she is not a [that specific chassidus]. Enough said. Get your facts right.

(I'm all for her being deported but don't invent stories)

PinkFridge

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 2:57 pm

There is a concept of not giving someone over if they will be disproportionately punished. This could be a factor. But there's a big difference between say, this and white collar crime. I'm not a posek nor do I play one on TV. But I would think the ideal situation would be to keep him in jail, for life or whatever, in EY.

Rappel

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 3:04 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

That seems to be the crux of the issue: the halachic punishment was not built for modern society.

https://www.chabad.org/parshah.....m.htm

Almost anything seems disproportionate in comparison. But if we had a Sanhedrin, would they alter the punishment to something more drastic, given the nature of the times?

nchr

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 3:33 pm

There are many sz offenders who ran away to Israel. I'm wondering what different on paper here and why his attorney could not point that out?

imasoftov

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 3:48 pm

Raisin wrote:

Look up Meir Lansky, the most famous person to be denied citizenship under the Law of Return due to criminal activity.

Malka Leifer's lawyer is currently arguing that she's mentally unfit to participate in extradition hearings. Should the court someday rule that she is (hearings have been going on for quite some time, it seems that they hold a short session on the case and adjourn for weeks until the next one) it's unclear how long it will take for the court to decide on whether she should be extradited or not.

FranticFrummie

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 5:36 pm

He should be given the option of surgical castration, or deportation. I'm OK with either one.

Keeping him in an Israeli jail for life just costs the tax payers more money.

Metukah

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 5:40 pm

amother [ Lawngreen ] wrote:

she definitely is [that chassidus]

She is NOT.

Her son lives near me and I know a relative of hers, well.

Her surname in itself tells you what chassidus she is.

She may have links to gur but her husband is not a gerrer.

The fact that litzman helped her does not make her a gerrer.

imasinger

Sun, Sep 01 2019, 6:11 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

He should be given the option of surgical castration, or deportation. I'm OK with either one.

Keeping him in an Israeli jail for life just costs the tax payers more money.

Sx offenders are motivated by more than arousal, so castration might not convince me that this man is now safe.

I vote for life imprisonment in EY. Not because he deserves the tax money it will cost, but because the alternatives punish the truly deserving in worse ways.