Admission cards | Imamother

amother

Copper

Mon, Sep 02 2019, 10:38 am

amother [ Puce ] wrote:

That's one story.

The other story is teachers don't get paid because parents don't prioritize tuition. I taught in a BYHS one year and didn't get paid a dime, yet 93% of the senior class went to Florida spring break and all went to seminary. You can rationalize seminary by saying they won't get a good shidduch unless they go to EY to seminary. But why do the girls merit Florida before tuition? Why all the fantastic shoes and bags floor ghee girls?

I know grandma is alwsys buying the plane tickets and the shoes and bags. And I don't understand the stress the moms have if the daughters aren't put together beyond the uniform.

I call nonsense on all these stories. You contact for a service, then pay for the service, so the teachers can afford gas in their cars to get to work to teach the children you have.

You're so focused on the parent's priorities- where are the schools priorities? Why aren't they prioritizing the teacher's pay? Why are all the teachers the last on the list to be paid? The hardworking teachers who are in the trenches should be the first ones to be paid, and only then should the payments be scaled down the list for the rest of the expenses.

amother

Lilac

Mon, Sep 02 2019, 10:48 am

amother [ Copper ] wrote:

What expenses are you going to cut? Water, so the kids can pee outside when service is cut off? Electricity? Heat? Maybe they shouldn’t fix the leaking roof, or the broken windows

I do agree that teachers need to be paid, and should be paid well. But the only way to do that is to force parents to pay, and that apparently paints me as the evil that wants to destroy the Jewish people.

amother

Lilac

Mon, Sep 02 2019, 11:04 am

amother [ Copper ] wrote:

What alternative are available to struggling parents? Public school? Keep them out of school?

Being that Private education is considered a must for our children, it's wrong for schools to issue ultimatums to parents who have no place else to put their children. Open up a jewish public school for our children, then all schools will have all the right to issue threats.

In the past, what, 20 years, “public school” has become the boogeyman of the Jewish community. The terrible, evil, non-alternative.

Well, maybe that needs to change. Maybe, at least in elementary grades, we need to rethink a public school with supplement model, with kids transitioning to yeshiva later, when limudei kodesh becomes more intense. But it would take a core of people.

Because — notwithstanding the thread about government regs where we’re told that everyone coming out of the current system winds up being a millionaire — there’s too many people who cannot afford the current system, and not paying teachers is not an alternative.

Oh, and in the US, you cannot have a religious Jewish public school. Separation of church and state. You can have a Hebrew charter school without limudei kodesh, but with Hebrew language, but I doubt anyone would like that.

amother

Copper

Mon, Sep 02 2019, 11:05 am

amother [ Lilac ] wrote:

On the same vein, what expenses do you want the parents to cut? Electricity, water, their home, food?

My point wasnt referring to what expenses should or shouldnt be paid. My question was why are the teachers last on the list to be paid. Yes, let them pay the teachers before they fix the broken windows. Seal the broken windows with a heavy plastic until the expenses can be figured out. Why dont they open their books to the parents and let the parents decide where to cut. Maybe they don't need 15 teachers per grade for high school, or maybe they can do away with some extra curricular expenses. Or maybe some parents can volunteer to do the repair work? Etc... If its truly as the always profess - that parents and the school are a team, then why does it seem like this is a one way street?

amother

Amethyst

Mon, Sep 02 2019, 11:11 am

amother [ Lilac ] wrote:

In the past, what, 20 years, “public school” has become the boogeyman of the Jewish community. The terrible, evil, non-alternative.

I'd say closer to 40 or 50. I grew up in an OOT decent sized frum community and went to school in the late 70's, 80's and early 90's. Sending to public school was considered strange. The places where it was accepted, it is still accepted now, except for places that didn't have any local frum schools and now do.

What has changed overall is the specializing of the schools and the standards expected of them. In that I include expectations by parents, by general society, and governement requirements. All these things cost money, including the specializing, which might mean there are two smaller schools instead of one big one.

amother

Puce

Mon, Sep 02 2019, 11:42 am

amother [ Copper ] wrote:

Because if the electricity isn't paid, the lights go out. No fuel is delivered if the bills aren't paid. No water, the schools can't open.

The dedicated teachers keep showing up.

naturalmom5

Mon, Sep 02 2019, 11:48 am

amother [ Copper ] wrote:

The people you describe are few and far in between. Very few people are ignoring their responsibilities and not prioritizing. It may appear to others that they're not prioritizing but until you haven't been in someone else's shoes, it's very difficult to understand. Here's an example to emphasize my point.

You're working full time just to put bread & butter on the table & a roof over your heads. You barely have a chance to down some breakfast, while pushing your youngest onto the bus and running off to work. You get home at the same time (or after) your kids arrive home, and quickly throw together some food for them, do homework with them, while balancing a baby's needs. You somehow figure out bedtime, before collapsing into bed from exhaustion. So yes, a cleaning lady may be a priority in this situation, because if the mother collapses, everything goes to h*ll, including the food on the table. As for clothing, the kids are B"H growing. You shop for the cheapest shoes and clothes and pass down what you possibly can, but yes, they will have something new to wear, unless you literally want me to send them with outgrown clothes and torn shoes to school. Expensive foods - ? Kosher food is expensive - no matter how little you buy it still adds up to a significant amount per week. Camps/day camps - ? Are you, or the school, offering to watch my children while I work, or am I expected to leave them home alone 5 days a week?

Schools? - Do I have a public school option or low cost option to send my kids to? Or should I homeschool them, including the bochurim (but there goes the food on the table)? And yes, some 3 year olds really need to be kept busy during the day. Times have changed, and we don't let 3 year olds run around the backyards on their own, or sit alone on the front stoop cheering all the bystanders on. Some kids are ok with little stimulation, but some kids literally go mad without a significant amount of it.

School expenses are a fortune. For so many of us, it's the largest expense of the household. It can come down literally between choosing to pay the schools, or prioritizing a semblance of a functional household. If you feel the need to be so harsh and judgmental of these parents, based on a few outliers who abuse the system, then so be it. And I'll daven for you that Hashem should never put you in such a situation where such struggles will hit home.

I know absolutely nothing ....
Just thinking out loud
But maybe we really need to follow the gam' in Baba Basra
Yibneh Bayis V Nosa Ishto

Too many people are marrying at 20 and having 10 children without a plan

Then crying when it doesn't work

amother

Azure

Mon, Sep 02 2019, 12:17 pm

amother [ Wheat ] wrote:

So does every other business or service, how do you expect them to pay their bills? What amother slateblue is saying is absolutely correct in many cases. We’ve reached a point where some things have become a need, when in actuality they are a want.

Why are you assuming that the same people who live above their means are not paying tuition? Do you really think chicken twice a week is a want, not a need? Electricity, water - Which bill should I not pay? Should I not pay my rent and live in the streets? Should I get rid of my car so we can't get to work and we can't go shopping? Which expense exactly do you want to take out? Which of these things is a want, not a need?

cbsp

Mon, Sep 02 2019, 12:21 pm

amother [ Wheat ] wrote:

But why is a parent sending to school without the admission card? If you don’t have the card don’t send the child. That is on you, not the school.

I don't disagree. There are parents that don't understand what an admission card means (our OP for one) or don't care (the parents referred to in some of the rants above).

In either scenario it's not the kid's fault he's in school. So why use a method that is guaranteed to be the most embarrassing? Not having an admission card is just as good as announcing to the class and the teacher that there are financial issues to be worked out.

On the other hand, if a child's name is not on the class list there could be other reasonable explanations.

In both cases the child is instructed to go to the office. In only the latter case can he go with his dignity intact.

amother

Slateblue

Mon, Sep 02 2019, 12:28 pm

amother [ Azure ] wrote:

Boy, that's a lot of assumptions! I don't spend on ANY of the above, just FYI. The schools don't care, they want their money just the same.

By the way, im talking about those that do have all the extras as "needs"....and then dont pay much to the schools....if you are struggling and not spending on extras...then yes, the schools will still insist, and I feel bad that you are suffering in this way. I think bec so many justify extras as "needs", the schools are being more strict in demanding the $.

The only way I can afford is bec me n dh work and dont spend on the extras but we constantly sacrifice to give to the school (bec public school is never an option...) and , yes, life is very hard.

amother

Wheat

Mon, Sep 02 2019, 12:28 pm

amother [ Azure ] wrote:

What you listed are basics. Now go look at other things. And yes people say they need, when they really want. For example baby clothing- why does a baby “ need” an expensive shabbos outfit? When my children were in uniform I bought from inexpensive stores like “kids r us”. And while they had clean decent clothing I bought inexpensive ones or took hand me downs. They did not go to extra curricular or chol hamoed trips when our income was limited. I could go on and on but we as human beings tend to see only one side of a coin as it pertains to our personal situations ( note, I include myself, for I’m sure I’ve done that too )
But I did not mean to derail the thread. Just wanted to point out that it is hard for everyone and that it is a vicious cycle.

amother

Puce

Mon, Sep 02 2019, 12:33 pm

amother [ Azure ] wrote:

Most people are living above their means in the community. I look around at the conspicuous consumption and realize how easy it would be to cut.

It's ridiculous that every time a cost cutting strategy is mentioned, some amother comes up with a justification of why the luxury is needed.

As a community, if we want everyone to have the same minimum lifestyle, we should choose one with a low common denominator rather than an upper middle class one as the basis. Not everyone can afford the $50,000 to $70,000 to marry off their kids. They end up relying on the community.

Maybe that is where the cut should be to fund education. Maybe the newlyweds don't get Italian furniture or the kallah gets a complete diamond jewelry set. Maybe some of this gratification could come as it is earned.

I don't see how this is sustainable.