Admission cards | Imamother

amother

Periwinkle

Fri, Sep 06 2019, 9:15 am

amother [ Copper ] wrote:

I'll try to clarify. I wouldn't compare tuition to an electric bill or car payment, since the cost of tuition is probably ten times as much. You can somehow try to figure out where to get a few hundred dollars here and there a month, but coming up with extra thousands per month is almost an impossible feat if you're dealing with financial struggles.

I'd rather compare tuition to a mortgage/rent (though in many cases, tuition is double that amount as well). If you can't pay your mortgage, you will eventually lose your house. But you have options - you can either move to a community where the housing costs are cheaper, downgrade to a smaller home, move in with parents, or in worst case scenarios go to a shelter. But what options do we have with schooling? All Jewish schools are private. The rates are pretty comparable in all communities, give or take a bit (it still costs thousands, no matter what). Public schools are not an option. Leaving the kids home all day is not an option. Homeschooling is usually not an option either, because both parents are working full time to put food on the table.

Schooling is an absolute necessity for all of our children. And as long as our communities don't provide an acceptable alternative to the expensive private schools, they need to accommodate and work with all parents, regardless of the ability to pay.

The alternative was provided, in 1948.

amother

Periwinkle

Fri, Sep 06 2019, 10:22 am

amother [ Copper ] wrote:

Why not?

In the case of OP - where what is missing is a building fund payment - yes the school should work with the parent. They aren't after her for money to fund daily operations.

But "working with the family" only works if there are income sources to offset what the family is not able to give.
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SixOfWands

Fri, Sep 06 2019, 10:26 am

amother [ Copper ] wrote:

Why not?

Most schools do work with parents. Its called "tuition assistance." And they really do their best.

But teachers need to be paid. Books need to be purchased. Floors need to be cleaned and toilets need to be flushed. Come winter, the heat needs to be on, and the snow shoveled.

This all costs money, and schools cannot exist on "well, I don't have it."

amother

Azure

Fri, Sep 06 2019, 10:32 am

amother [ Periwinkle ] wrote:

What in the world is that even supposed to mean?

Do you really see tuition as a commodity as any other - you have money, your child goes to school, you don't have money, they stay home?

As another amother said, tuition is A LOT more than mortgage, electricity, and food bill put together. My tuition costs right now are $3,000 A MONTH after scholarships, I would imagine that if I would have to pay full price it would be over $6000 a month. To put this into perspective, my mortgage is $1000 a month. We did not buy more house than we could afford. We buy cheaper foods to save money. But in this case we would have no option but to pay $6,000 a month, which we absolutely do not even have.

So basically you're saying that you don't want my kids in your yeshiva and school. That's really nice of you. So glad that most schools are much nicer than you are.

amother

Azure

Fri, Sep 06 2019, 10:33 am

SixOfWands wrote:

And what are parents supposed to do if they really don't have it? Both parents work full time and they're barely keeping afloat?

amother

Copper

Fri, Sep 06 2019, 10:34 am

amother [ Periwinkle ] wrote:

School is a necessity. I don't think anyone will argue with that. We seem to recognize that when it's related to Kiruv, but you and some others seem to overlook that when it comes to your own neighbors. There is no low cost alternative, and there is no free alternative. What are parents to do when they find themselves in a deep financial hole? The parents are literally struggling to supply the bare minimum to their kids - food and shelter. There is (at the moment in time) no income sources to provide even the minimum for tuition. Since you feel that there is no obligation on the community & schools to work with such parents, what are you suggesting to the parents? Enroll the kids in public schools, and then have Nechomos Yisroel organization jump in and cry out "gevald, Jewish kids in public schools", we need to help them? Or perhaps your so very kindhearted suggestion that all such parents should move to Israel, regardless of feasibility of it?

All I can say is thank goodness there are members of my community and on the school boards who have more heart and soul than you are currently displaying. I guess that alone is something for me to be very thankful for. So thank you for giving me a positive perspective that I can focus on today. - - -> Thank you Hashem for putting goodhearted and considerate people in my environment, that my daily struggles don't have to be compounded by dealing with unpleasantness and indifference when begging for understanding and care.

Rivky

Fri, Sep 06 2019, 10:47 am

amother [ Azure ] wrote:

And what are parents supposed to do if they really don't have it? Both parents work full time and they're barely keeping afloat?

What are the schools and yeshivas supposed to do if parents are not paying? Where is the money to run a school and pay teachers and rebbeim supposed to come from? Again, I am truly trying to understand the reasoning of parents who are not making it. We struggle ourselves and of course a break in tuition or pay when you have and can would be amazing, but I do understand where the yeshivas are coming from.

SixOfWands

Fri, Sep 06 2019, 10:47 am

amother [ Azure ] wrote:

And what are parents supposed to do if they really don't have it? Both parents work full time and they're barely keeping afloat?

You mean that the tuition assistance offered wasn't sufficient to meet the family's needs.

I'm not sure what you want me to say. That the teachers should agree to work for free? That the school should turn the thermostat down to 55 and tell the kids to wear parkas in the classroom?

Because schools need money to operate. Of course they should offer assistance whenever possible. Of course they should give leeway in emergencies -- and IMNSHO, some financial aid should always be set aside for families who have emergencies during the year, such as loss of employment. But schools still need money. That's reality.

amother

Azure

Fri, Sep 06 2019, 10:58 am

SixOfWands wrote:

No, that's not what I meant at all. OP said that she paid her tuition, it's the extra building find that they were demanding and she simply didn't have the money. My friend just had this exact scenario, so I know what she is talking about. You can't get water from a stone, and you can't get money from people who simply don't have it.

Another poster implied that a school can only give scholarships if they have other income streams to offset the loss. If they don't have it, tough luck on the parent. My comments were regarding full tuition, not about paying reduced tuition. Of course schools are not working for free. Of course I have to pay my reduced tuition.

Like another copper, I just realized how much I have to be grateful for that my kids schools are much nicer than some of the posters here.

amother

Pearl

Fri, Sep 06 2019, 10:59 am

It really comes down to simple mathematics.

A school needs $X amount of money to run. If it doesn't have that amount of money the school will shut down and then a scramble for seats for the dispossessed children.

There are more expensive schools and less expensive schools but the bottom line is that even the least expensive school needs money to operate.

Where is the money going to come from? Either it comes from parents in the form of tuition or it comes from "benefactors" who donate money. There is a limited amount pot of money from benefactors which most schools are fighting for.

The reality is that people are not willing to be "taxed" in order to fund "all" schools. If they have extra money, they are going to donate to schools they have an affiliation with. Communities such as KY can fund their schools because everyone goes to the same schools essentially so they are running a quasi-public school system which the community supports. There is no community school system in Lakewood or Monsey so there are many "rival" schools and no consensus supporting every school on a community basis. There are some small communities in which parents are not so "picky" regarding the school because they have no choice and a broad range of families have a vested interest in supporting the school because there is no alternative.

So this is never going to be resolved because the reality is that most families are "middle class" or less prosperous. Middle class people can't realistically afford private school and outside of the frum world don't send to private school for the most part. So there is always going to be a huge gap between the resources of those needing to go to private school and the resources of the schools being able to provide affordable education to all who want it.

amother

Copper

Fri, Sep 06 2019, 11:07 am

SixOfWands wrote:

I've got a lot to say on this, but I don't have time at the moment. So I'll just highlight two of my main points.

Tuition assistance should be a priority in communities. That should come before the million dollar shuls on every second street and marble and granite mikvahs, etc. We need to impress the importance of it to all benefactors, and strategize how to do that.

In addition, we need to provide a proper education for our boys so they can have opportunities to higher-paying jobs. Many of the financial cases, mine included, is due to lack of proper education. If we want our men to be able to support such high tuition demands, they need to be prepared to be able to get jobs that pay accordingly. We need to line up our education with the future expectations of the boys.

amother

Periwinkle

Fri, Sep 06 2019, 11:23 am

amother [ Azure ] wrote:

I basically said nothing about your kids in my yeshiva and school.

I donate to scholarship funds. "working with you" only works if there are people who back the school.

amother

Periwinkle

Fri, Sep 06 2019, 11:26 am

amother [ Copper ] wrote:

Wow.

Amazing how I said none of what you said that I'm saying.

amother

Periwinkle

Fri, Sep 06 2019, 11:28 am

amother [ Copper ] wrote:

Sounds like what you are suggesting is one central pot where everyone contributes - and a committee who distributes the funds, to schools first.

"Community" is a very vague term here. Without a centralized system - we are a community of individual donors making individual choices.

oliveoil

Fri, Sep 06 2019, 12:46 pm

Rivky wrote:

What is there to understand. People struggle. Not everyone has the potential to be a high earner. Not everyone will "make it." You make it sound like they're a choice to "not make it."

In the wider world, average earners don't send to expensive private schools. It's considered a luxury. But here we expect everyone - the wealthy, the struggling middle class, and the poor to treat private school like a basic necessity. Honestly, there's no way it can work. Then add to the mix that most of these schools produce graduates who don't have the tools to earn what they need to in order to then send their kids through the same schools.

keym

Fri, Sep 06 2019, 12:56 pm

oliveoil wrote:

Plus prices are jumping crazily. My parents paid (OOT BY) 7k a kid. Now 20 years later, the same exact school, same hours, programs, and services 12k.