A polite "good morning" won't make you sin, or will it?

simcha2

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 3:20 pm

momomany wrote:

You are entitled to your opinion. I totally disagree.

I was never taught that it is a mitzva for a man to greet a woman. One of my sons did his bar mitzva speech on the concept of being absolved of doing 1 mitzva while doing another..so one can argue that while doing the.mitzva of shmiras ainayim,a male can be absolved of greeting a woman (if that is even a mitzva)

I still dont see how a man is embarrassing a woman by not greeting her. Perhaps there is a subtle cultural nuance I am missing.

And at the risk of sounding like a broken record, until we are perfect ourselves, we really need to stop judging others as being "oiver". My family is a mixed bag of chassidish, yeshivish, litvish, lubavitch, Hungarian, galician etc. Thank g-d noone judges why one person sits during kiddush and the others stands; why one is already thinking of tomorrows shacharis while the other is seeking a maariv minyan from the day beofore; why one relishes matzo balls at the seder while the other wont eat matza at the table if there is liquid anywhere in the vicinity. Noone quotes shulchan aruch or mishna brura or tanach to prove why someone else is oiver and why they are truly the best jew with the purest practices.

I really think that we need to work on being the best people we can be and that includes looking at others and their religious practices kindly.

I agree with this. But triple liking a post where someone calls someone who holds different "immature" seems to counter your own point.

Everyone is blinded by their own biases. (It goes both ways, left to right, AND right to left)

Mommyg8

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 3:23 pm

naturalmom5 wrote:

Exactly
I find that the women are 100* more strident about it

The vast majority of normal well adjusted men I say good morning to will be polite

Virtually all the women in my neighborhood are hostile to men

When my husband gets holds the door for a mother with a stroller they act like they are being hit on.
He is older than their father usually.

My theory is the men have Torah , so they can be polite and still be very yeshivish

But for the women, tznius is their whole religion... so they fight to the death for it

Wow! I really like this one! And how sad.

amother

Scarlet

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 6:55 pm

Chayalle wrote:

Which community is this? I definitely greet my relatives (including thru marriage) if I pass them on the street....including those who are principal of large local Cheder, magid shiur in a mesivta, rosh Chaburah in BMG, etc....

Chassidish Twisted Evil

If I would meet my grandfather-in-law I wonder what the protocol is Banging head

cbsp

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 7:19 pm

simcha2 wrote:

There is a specific halacha to greet each person.

(Including women and non Jews)

מענה רך משיב חמה ומרבה שלום עם אחיו ועם קרוביו ועם כל אדם ואפילו עם גוי בשוק כדי שיהא אהוב למעלה ונחמד למטה ויהא מקובל על הבריות

(where does it mention women in your possuk?)

I actually learned that this can be a reason one should marry. So that the men can greet the men and the women the women.

As far as the mishneh in pirkei avos goes, the rest is "b'ishto amru, Kal vachomer b'aishes chaveiro"

So don't be excessive in talking to your wife, how much more so the wife of your friend.

amother

Vermilion

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 7:54 pm

I’m a convert and it’s one (of the many things, admittedly) that I just don’t get. I say good morning to everyone and most people say it back with a smile and that’s it. But frum men and even other frum women glare at me like I’ve just insulted them. I didn’t grow up with tznius (and still don’t have it tbh) so it’s really hard for me to understand how a simple good morning gets misconstrued into anything other than a friendly exchange (unless I’m like batting my eyelashes and sashaying down the block).

amother

Brown

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 7:56 pm

amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:

its not that its misconstrued - its just that you are doing something unacceptable in the community you live in.

naturalmom5

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 7:57 pm

cbsp wrote:

1...define excessive
Good morning or just a smile is excessive????

2.
Why did Bruria say Aizeh L Lud
According to you she should of said nothing and made an angry face

amother

Vermilion

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 8:03 pm

amother [ Brown ] wrote:

its not that its misconstrued - its just that you are doing something unacceptable in the community you live in.

I think it may be unacceptable to some, sure. I live in a very mixed community ranging from LWMO to RW Yeshivish (is this even a term? Lol). The ones that glare at me are probably more to the right of me, which is fine. But the whole concept is still very foreign to me.

simcha2

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 8:08 pm

cbsp wrote:

It says כל אדם

Jewishfoodie

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 8:10 pm

naturalmom5 wrote:

AVINU MALKEINU SHELACH REFUAH SHLEIMA L CHOLI AMECHA

Amen! Am I the only one who couldn't stop laughing?

Now I know where all the funny people went...

Guys!! Lighten up! Ivdu ess Hashem B'simcha!!

I passed someone while driving today who was in his undershirt, long reddish beard and payos and had this HUGE smile on his face. He was walking practically into oncoming traffic. Then when we passed him he yelled "Rabbi Nachman!!"

Everyone in our car smiled a whole way home. Why? Because he was happy. Transference. It copy/pasted itself onto us. We are much busy these weeks.. Baruch Hashem a Simcha, but still, the tension just lifted.

If someone tells you good morning, wish them one back. Smile. And MOVE ON PLEASE!

We don't smile enough. We really don't smile enough. As a matter of fact, I get the impression that we look for reasons NOT to smile. I'm not sure why.

So I'm hoping one day soon, someone will open Ima and say, hmmmm, so many problems out there.. Let's laugh a bit.

You'll find me loitering there.

(No. That was not me sleeping with your husband because he said good morning to me. I was busy with MY husband. Like all other normal people.)

cbsp

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 8:17 pm

naturalmom5 wrote:

1...define excessive
Good morning or just a smile is excessive????

2.
Why did Bruria say Aizeh L Lud
According to you she should of said nothing and made an angry face

1. I don't know if it applies to a greeting or not. I was just clarifying what seemed to be confused above since someone said it referred to a person's wife (but left out the Kal va'chomer) and another imamother said something else but didn't get the mishneh correct either. (not the post I originally quoted but I didn't have time to find the few posts where it was mentioned)

2. I don't know what the practice of the community was in the days of Bruria. There are many different takanos and minhagim that were enacted by Rabbonim with far greater wisdom and Torah knowledge than I have in the intervening years.

I personally, despite my Boro Park upbringing, delight in greeting fellow Yidden. I definitely will say good morning or good Shabbos to a female. In Passaic (where I currently live) I'll greet the males who either greet me first or look like the type who wouldn't consider it a breech of tznius. If it's a bochur or a yeshivish looking fellow who is already walking down the street with his eyes averted I will not greet him (but I may loudly instruct my boys to say good Shabbos). I'm not offended. On the contrary, I'd be breaking rules of etiquette and our community norms by insisting that my way is the correct way.

momomany

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 8:26 pm

Jewishfoodie wrote:

Amen! Am I the only one who couldn't stop laughing?
.)

A person shared specific behavioral norms in her community. The response was that she needs a refuah shelaima. In all caps. What do you find funny about that? Is the person who shared laughing at being told she needs a refuaj? I doubt it. And neither am I.

Genius

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 8:34 pm

I was very impressed when a man helped me with my carriage up a flight of stairs. in my community it is definitely not the norm. I see many girls walk past without helping too. I believe when anyone needs help no matter how obvious they think it is, they can always ask a passerby to help. Don't expect other people to know what you want. There are many women who would be insulted when someone offers to help. That person is implying that said struggling woman can't manage.

amother

Brown

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 8:38 pm

genius wrote:

Someone who is insulted because their male neighbor didn't greet them (and she knew he won't so why did she try again?) actively chooses to be insulted. I wonder if the male will go to gehinnom because a woman chose to be a victim.

He won't go to gehinnom for saying good morning either.

She feels how she feels. If she works on it - she'll change her feelings.

Jewishfoodie

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 8:46 pm

momomany wrote:

The response was funny. To me. So I expressed my opinion. She said Refuah Sh'leima in lieu of an an answer. It was funny. To me. I needed a laugh. So I laughed.

You don't have to laugh if you don't think it's funny to you. Nobody needs to laugh if it's not funny to them.

But see, here's where my problem lies.. I had a laugh today that I needed sooo badly. I won't share my day with you but I will tell you it was hard. And the first free minute I had today, I sat down today and read this particular thread. And of the two answers that made me laugh, (shout out to runner up who said she sleeps with every man who says hi to her!) this answer made me laugh.

I wasn't disrespectful to ANYONE. Not even the poster she quoted in her box.

Why did you need to take that laugh away from me?

You did. I'm duly chastised.

I'm sorry for smiling in your direction today. And to all those I've offended with liking the "wrong" answer, I apologize

I will make a sincere effort not to smile today and to hate on everyone who's funny. Happy now?