A polite "good morning" won't make you sin, or will it?

Genius

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 8:50 pm

amother [ Brown ] wrote:

He won't go to gehinnom for saying good morning either.

She feels how she feels. If she works on it - she'll change her feelings.

No he won't. I think greeting every human being is a beautiful practice. But saying that one who insults is as if he killed her is exaggerated in this scenario. Newsflash: HE DID NOT INSULT HER. She chose to be insulted by what he did. Get the difference?

amother

Forestgreen

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 8:50 pm

[quote="amother [ OP ]"]

Quote:

True, but I live in an area that is not even yeshivish, so it just feels like I'm being ignored

You're making this about you and taking it personally, when it’s about the man and his beliefs or issues. Why do you take it as “being ignored?” Why do strangers have to notice you and acknowledge you? Why’s your self esteem tied in with what others do or don’t do?

amother

Forestgreen

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 8:51 pm

amother [ Puce ] wrote:

We used to live in an apartment building in Bp. If my husband would as much offer to help shlep a woman's stroller up the stairs she was so uncomfortable you'd think he asked to sleep with her. Same for holding the door open. They would look down and hurry away as if God knows what he wants to do. And my husband is a regular eidel chassidish looking guy.
We've since moved. Our new neighborhood has a bit of an oot vibe, anyone that passes each other on the street regardless of gender will greet good shabbos. We still marvel at it.

What neighboHood?

momomany

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 8:54 pm

Jewishfoodie wrote:

The response was funny. To me. So I expressed my opinion. She said Refuah Sh'leima in lieu of an an answer. It was funny. To me. I needed a laugh. So I laughed.

You don't have to laugh if you don't think it's funny to you. Nobody needs to laugh if it's not funny to them.

But see, here's where my problem lies.. I had a laugh today that I needed sooo badly. I won't share my day with you but I will tell you it was hard. And the first minute I sat down today and read this thread.

And of the two answers that made me laugh, (shout out to runner up who said she sleeps with every man who says hi to her!) this answer made me laugh.

I wasn't disrespectful to ANYONE. Not even the poster she quoted in her box.

Why did you need to take that laugh away from me?

You did. I'm duly chastised.

I'm sorry for smiling on your direction today. And to all those I've offended with liking the "wrong" answer.

I will make a sincere effort not to smile today and to hate on everyone who's funny. Happy now?

I am so blown away by your response. Bh I had a happy cheerful day and made other people smile as well.
It is not OK to laugh and join the fun when another person is being attacked and bullied.
To stand by and not respond when another is told she is sick for practicing her cultural norms is not ok. To laugh at this is reprehensible.
You are being facetious when you say sorry for smiling I Laugh

n my direction and that you will make a sincere effort not to smile. But if that is funny to you then go ahead. Send the sarcasm my way. I can take it. But dont use Imamother as a place to attack others religious norms.

amother

Lavender

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 8:54 pm

momomany wrote:

The passuk as I was taught continues to say kal vachomer your own wife. But the first part as I understand it means women in general.
And I try not to be oiver halacha while keeping a chumra, thats what my parents taught us and my son actually wrote an ethics paper for college regarding this very issue.
I still feel it is impt not to judge others religious practices or chumras. I was taught that too. I dont feel embarrassed, hurt or slighted when chassidish neighbors fail to greet me. I respect the way they were taught to practice yiddishkeit.
As a hospital nurse, I dont feel offended when male family members of patients dont make eye contact or speak to me and I am proud that the hospital I work at teaches its employees to respect this as a religious practice and to not be offended or try and make conversation. It is so so so sad that it it us jews that are judging our own brethren

Sorry to correct this here, but it's a real pet peeve of mine:

It's not a passuk. It's from Pirkei Avos, which is from Maseches Avos. It's from the Mishnah.

"אל תרבה שיחה עם האשה. באשתו אמרו, קל וחומר אשת חבירו"

However, אל תרבה means "don't speak too much." Does too much extend to saying "Good morning" and being polite? I highly, highly doubt it.

Mommyg8

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 8:59 pm

amother [ Lavender ] wrote:

I was always told that we don't pasken from the Gemarah. Is there anyone more knowledgeable here who can tell me- do we not pasken from mishnah as well?

Anyway, from what understand (never learned gemarah) there are so many contradictory gemarahs and mishnayos that you can basically pick a position and find a gemarah to support it.

My kids have a joke, that when someone asks you a question on something you answer - it's a machlokes (And look wise when you say it). You're bound to right!

Jewishfoodie

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 9:10 pm

momomany wrote:

Attack religious norms?! Have you ever read any of my posts? I'd rather die before hurting a human being! Again! I responded to what I thought was a funny answer! I was in no way encouraging a bully! And if I encouraged a bully, I apologized already! I read an answer on a thread and laughed! I don't think anyone was being bullied but I put in the mea culpa that I thought it was a funny way to reply!

Now I'm sarcastic and encouraging bullies?? Okay.

I'm sorry to you too. But if you're blown away by my response, you came away with literally none of my intent. You literally called me sarcastic. Sheesh. OK. Good night. I'm sorry I ever got involved here. My bad.

Glad you made people laugh today. It's a huge zechus. I'm sorry I wasn't one of them.

amother

Lavender

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 9:15 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

I don't know whether or not this is a "halacha" to follow. But even according to the poster who misquoted that as a pasuk, she vastly exaggerated the scope of the Mishnah. It doesn't say not to talk to or be polite to women- and it certainly doesn't say "thou shalt not help out a woman who needs help!"

momomany

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 9:18 pm

amother [ Lavender ] wrote:

Hmmmm
Someone said thats what the passuk/mishna says? I didnt see that.
I do agree that we dont pasken from a mishna

Can we all agree to disagree live by the norms of our own communities without bashing those to the left or right of us

amother

Red

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 9:20 pm

I perfectly understand why a women can be offended . Because she is a person with neshama. By not greeting her men downgrade her to a zexual body . Why can’t a man wish a good morning to a PERSON even if she happened to born as a women - that I can’t understand as a BT .
Men that follow this practice looked like they can’t acknowledge any women other that an potential object for zex.

simcha2

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 9:20 pm

amother [ Forestgreen ] wrote:

Because it's the halacha, and the reason given for the halacha is exactly this, that it is hurtful (reduces shalom) by not doing it.

Why do we have any בן אדם לחברו mitzvot?

amother

Babyblue

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 9:21 pm

momomany wrote:

For someone who's asking us not to bash, you sure do bash others you don't agree with

amother

Lavender

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 9:27 pm

Jewishfoodie wrote:

It's okay, JF. We all know that you're a sensitive poster and really try to make everyone feel good.

There were those (myself included) who found the post you quoted somewhat offensive (albeit funny) and someone reported it. It's not an excuse to run out and attack you for it.

Don't stop posting, pleeeeeease....

unexpected

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 9:29 pm

momomany wrote:

A person shared specific behavioral norms in her community. The response was that she needs a refuah shelaima. In all caps. What do you find funny about that? Is the person who shared laughing at being told she needs a refuaj? I doubt it. And neither am I.

I just read the refuah shelaima thing and I'm sorry but it was funny. I laughed.

unexpected

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 9:33 pm

Also, I was responding specifically to the good morning thing. Actually, where I live, in BP, most men would stop and hold open a door for someone or help with the carriage, in my experience. Unless they are on the phone or walking and talking... I would expect my husband and boys to do the same. Also my girls by the way. Seeing someone struggle and ignoring is very different than not saying good morning.

tigerwife

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 9:34 pm

Op, where are you from? A lot of this of cultural and not just “Frum”. If a stranger in NYC greeted me, male or female, I’d say hi back and either be going crazy wondering if I actually knew them from somewhere or have my creep alert go off (whether the greeter was male of female!). I am only exaggerating a little Wink

. I think most other cities are not like this, so if you are an out-of-towner in NYC, you may be blown away by the coldness which is actually not rude behavior but culturally appropriate.

If it’s so obvious that the man is greeting other supposedly unknown males and pretending that you, the female passerby, are a gust of wind rather than acknowledging a strange woman, I would honestly just let it be. Why does it hurt? I may be a more reserved person in general, someone who keeps to herself, so I cannot imagine why someone would actually want to have extra social interaction with everyone they see.

This is different than, for example, the men who would ignore the morah at pick up (so rude! And rather bizarre), or freeze out the cashier or saleswoman. Mentchlichkeit does include a “Hi, how are you today? Thank you for your service,” in whatever variation, to someone who services you. Does “hevai mekabal es lol haadom besever panim yafos “ mean a personal greeting, or literally a pleasant demeanor?

amother

Lavender

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 9:35 pm

I believe I read a story a few years ago about a young man in Flatbush who was walking in the street with an umbrella. He saw a young woman who was walking without an umbrella and getting soaked. He debated about what to do, and ended up giving the young woman his umbrella. He was later criticized for it by people who witnessed the scene.

I think this was written in one of the frum magazines.

Genius

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 9:35 pm

amother [ Red ] wrote:

No man ever greeted me when I walked in Manhattan and I find no fault in it. This theory here is your very own concoction. Most men don't think "ok here comes a woman. lemme not greet her or I will sin." They don't greet because that is the way they grew up. nothing personal against anyone

amother

Thu, Sep 05 2019, 9:37 pm

tigerwife wrote:

Im not talking about strangers, I'm talking about neighbors on my block.