Husband potched 5 year old for hitting

amother

Wed, Sep 11 2019, 10:05 am

My 5 year old is going through a stage (for about 2 months already) where he gets violent when he is upset, including hitting, scratching, throwing things etc. I have suffered some real scratches from him. None of the disciplinary methods I've been using seem to help, and today my husband got so fed up when my son threw something at him that he angrily potched him (on his arm), yelled at him that he is not allowed to hurt people, and put him in his room. This was gut-wrenching for me to watch as I strongly believe potching is harmful, but my husband insists that this is the only way because nothing I'm doing is helping, and this kid needs to know he cannot cross a red line of hurting his parents.

What do you all think? I'm feeling so torn.

Chayalle

Wed, Sep 11 2019, 10:11 am

I understand your husband's frustration, and he's right that this kid needs to know he cannot hurt others, including his parents.

The question is how to get him to know that. You don't post what other methods you have used. I think the putting him in his room part is appropriate, maybe without the potch or the anger. If he is hurting people, he has to be contained - and he should know that. Like if an animal would hurt others, he is put in a cage. If a child is hurting others, he cannot be part of society, and must be calmly and firmly put into his room until he is ready to rejoin the family safely.

Mommyg8

Wed, Sep 11 2019, 10:33 am

thunderstorm wrote:

It sent a mixed message to the five year old. Why am I not allowed to potch and hurt people but Totty is allowed to potch and hurt me?

I don't agree. It's not a mixed message - Totty' s are allowed to pitch kinderlach who don't behave, because totty is a totty and he is a child.

I know that potching is out of style, and I totally agree that we shouldn't potch our children for any little thing, but honestly there are some times when only potching works, in my experience.

s c

Wed, Sep 11 2019, 10:44 am

I dont agree with ever hitting children. In this case with such a young child, I think timeout is appropriate or restraining if the child is out of control, but it is essential for the parent to remain calm. If you hit, which is usually done in anger, all you are teaching your child is that when he loses it, you lose it too and to model the exact same behaviour which you trying to stop makes no sense. I had experience of this with one of my boys, and he could get quite violent and what worked over time was consistent consequences, such as time out or a natural consequence which he knew would be coming, Over time he got the message. Another thing that is essential (and again, we learnt from experience) is complete consistency from both parents. So pick a parenting technique you can both get on board with and stick to it together

amother

Pearl

Wed, Sep 11 2019, 10:48 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

If I had the time I would make an imamother post about this but I'm very disillusioned with today's non authoritarian parenting style that says parents are supposed to be your best friends , they never have the right to hit you etc.(I used to be a fervent believer in it)

As you write "None of the disciplinary methods I've been using seem to help" so yes I think it's time to try some "potch therapy". Otherwise you are telling him that he can hit, scratch and throw things at you but you can't do anything serious to him.

My only caveat is that a child should never be hit out of anger.

Mommyg8

Wed, Sep 11 2019, 10:52 am

amother [ Pearl ] wrote:

If I had the time I would make an imamother post about this but I'm very disillusioned with today's non authoritarian parenting style that says parents are supposed to be your best friends , they never have the right to hit you etc.(I used to be a fervent believer in it)

As you write "None of the disciplinary methods I've been using seem to help" so yes I think it's time to try some "potch therapy"

My only caveat is that a child should [b]never be hit out of anger[/b].

And I'll add, very, very rarely. And only when you've tried everything else.

(Rabbi Dr. Abraham J. Twerski writes that children may be potched for chutzpah).

little neshamala

Wed, Sep 11 2019, 11:11 am

Our Rosh Yeshiva is very against hitting. Firstly because its very very difficult for a parent to meet the criteria necessary for it to be "allowed".
And second because its simply ineffective parenting. Scaring or forcing a child into submssion isnt ideal. Establishing that youre the authority and should be listened to should happen in a gentle, commanding way. Theres no reason to get physical.

his words, but I agree with him 1 billion percent

LovesHashem

Wed, Sep 11 2019, 11:14 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

And I'll add, very, very rarely. And only when you've tried everything else.

(Rabbi Dr. Abraham J. Twerski writes that children may be potched for chutzpah).

I think chutzpah and danger is a sufficient reason. If you tell your child to NOT do something dangerous and he/she does it.

Yes a rare occasion. I think the author of "All for the Boss" was hit once or twice. No more than that.

Mommyg8

Wed, Sep 11 2019, 11:16 am

There are a lot of mechanchim in the world, and they may believe in different things.

After my child was bullied for many months by a mechanech's child, and the mechanich told my husband that he has no way to stop his child from bullying, I'm not sure I would follow a mechanech's advice necessarily.

I am older than a lot of you and I have all types of kids. This has been my experience, take it or leave it.

mommy201

Wed, Sep 11 2019, 11:16 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Hi OP, I totally understand the frustration your husband had in dealing with a seemingly difficult child for a while. An while it seems that potching is rare in your house, your husband got fed up and did potch. You shouldnt tell your husband off in front of your child. Perhaps you can broach the topic later.
I also believe that potching is harmful, but not just because its a potch. It's harmful because it's a punishment and there are many other things that are also harmful that dont involve potching. If its something done very sparingly, I would hope that it wouldnt have too much negative outcomes long term.

It just so happens to be that my daughter that age is going through a similar stage. I think it may have to do with all the change of schedule and things going on. What it seems like your child needs is not punishments at all, but a extra dose of connection and empathy and to help him talk through his feeling without having to resort to violence. There is definitely a way to do this, however it involves work and patience on your end. And the best part is that it helps build the relationship with your children and develops emotionally healthy expressive children who learn how to control themselves much better.

I am not sure if you are looking for a parenting class but I would recommend Blimie Heller's course. She has helped me as so many others in similar situations. You can check her instagram page out - "unconditional_parenting"

Good luck!

Chayalle

Wed, Sep 11 2019, 11:19 am

LovesHashem wrote:

Re-read the book. The author describes her father's method of discipline very clearly. He used to take her into a room, and then he took out his belt, and HE HIT THE BEDPOST, NOT HER, with his belt.

In other words, he gave the message of discipline over very powerfully, but she was not a physical target.

It's interesting.

mha3484

Wed, Sep 11 2019, 11:19 am

My son is almost 5 and he hits and throws stuff. He also runs out the front door. We have tried time out, potching, taking away stuff and none of it works. I started using the same explosive child methods I use with my oldest who has totally different issues and it works way better. I have come to realize that all of this stems from being overwhelmed. When he cant cope with a situation his fight or flight instinct kicks in and since hes so little this is how he responds.

Now, I try and head it off at the pass. If I see him getting dis-regulated I will re direct him to go play outside which is super calming for him, read books, have a calm down with me in his room, sit with him and play magnatiles. Stopping what I am doing is not easy but it has reduced outbursts significantly.

Behavior is communication. He is clearly struggling to meet expectations and it probably feels worse for him then it does for you.

little neshamala

Wed, Sep 11 2019, 11:21 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

That is just crazy. There was for sure something he could have done chinuch wise. The options Hashem put in place for him were not to either hit his child, or let him bully yours. There was an option C.

tothepoint

Wed, Sep 11 2019, 11:23 am

Hitting once in a while is ok if the following applies:

-You are hitting the child purely to instill chinuch. Not because you want to release your anger on the child
-The potch is not very hurtful.

There is no heter for a parent to angrily slap his child in a hurtful way!

I don't know what approach your DH took, but the right way would be to go over to kid and say something like 'tatty will have to give you a potch now bc u behaved so and so and this is chutzpah.

That being said, I myself am not perfect and I can sometimes lose myself too. I will apologize and explain to child

LovesHashem

Wed, Sep 11 2019, 11:29 am

Chayalle wrote:

Thanks for correcting me Smile

I guess I was wrong. I still believe hitting can be okay in a certain circumstance. But again - not more than once or twice in their LIFETIME. That's what I mean by an EXTREME circumstance.

amother

Chartreuse

Wed, Sep 11 2019, 11:31 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

Totally anon for this. I have a DC that is far more damaged emotionally by hearing me say something like I’m disappointed or being separated from the family with time out than being potched. It’s not the only method used