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Treat your adult kids like adults! Stop the coddling! Vent..
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amother




Salmon


Post  Sun, Sep 15 2019, 9:39 pm
[quote="amother [ Firebrick ]"]
amother [ OP ] wrote:
The policy is that the student needs to come speak to me about absence within a week - if not it affects the grades of the classes missed.
These situation where mom calls a day after DD missed the deadline to tell me how I am a terrible person for letting the computerized attendance system do it s thing (I can't change anything without authorization from principal and when I told mom this she started cursing)
I mean seriously? She had a week
to talk to me!
And it's not just this mom-this is the attitude with most of our parents body-let the kids screw up and then we bully everyone into giving in to them....
Now my principal refuses to speak to the mom and wants me to be the bad guy.
For those who said I should chill - It is a VENT!!!!!
You can start a spin off with this girls mom where you talk about what a **** I am-this thread was supposed to be valadation...[/quote

Side note I would not want my kids teacher to use such language ever

She actually wrote "its a VENT." She's not speaking to the students. Can we give her a safe space to express her legitimate frustration?
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octopus




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Sep 15 2019, 10:07 pm
I would be furious if a mom called me up cursing. I would be furious if a principal didn't back me up. Why can't op be upset at both? It is not okay to call up the school administration (secretaries included) and be cursed out. That is unacceptable. I agree to forget about the aspect of teaching the girls' responsibilities. This is about you doing your job and not being treated like garbage.
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amother




Crimson


Post  Sun, Sep 15 2019, 10:25 pm
OP, just because you were just in high school a few years ago doesn't mean you get how life is for a middle-aged mom with teens. It's not just about the child, its about the bigger picture.

I'm not saying this is the exact situation, but imagine this:
Imagine a mother with 8 kids. Her husband has medical issues, kid has learning disabilities and isn't doing well in school--leading to social and emotional issues and hes in therapy and OT for that. Another kid is an older single, constantly having the stress of helping her along. Theres another grown child that is married in a complicated situation and has a tense relationship with the rest of her family. She and her husband are hardly making it finantially, dispite working all day every day. The parents come home at the end of the day feeling more than half dead and need to make dinner and take care of the kids. The mother has to help her aging parents who are not doing well. Theres dinner every night, shabbos every week, yom tov, and lunches and endless papers to sign and homework to do and work to finish up from that day that had to be pushed off so she could take some kid to the dentist. The younger ones don't see enough of their parents and are constantly being midly neglected. Mom hasn't eaten a meal sitting down==other than shabbos--in ten years. Sometimes she forgets to shower or starts drifting off at stop lights on the commute home from work. Dad is sick so their relationship has been affected and she isn't getting her emotional needs met there either.It is so darn messy! Where are my shoes? Oh my gosh, what do you mean the passports expired? The house doesn't ever get quiet. The parents are asleep before the kids. Then 6 am they do it all over.

Finally, their dear cousin is having a simcha! This is what makes the stress worth it--the upsherins, kiddushim, bar mitzvas, weddings... and they all stress and hustle and get out and have a wonderful, exhausting time. And then the daughter is late. And the next morning the mom is late to work and her boss tells her she has to work extra hours that week. And there aren't extra hours. and the daughter gets in trouble and needs a note and tells her mom and she forgets because there aren't any extra brain cells in there. And then her grades are going to be lowered and she just can't handle this because this would be the last straw to hangig onto her sanity. she she calls up ad swears at the (sorry) ignorent naieve 25 year old teacher to just let her daughter off the hook for gods sake.

maybe underneath your strong emotions that the girls aren't responsible, you are just feeling jealous that you weren't taken care of enough. or maybe, (lucky you), your parents only had a few kids, had enough money, and you don't know what a typical home looks like for most people.

school is not the most important thing in the world. neither are grades or rules or even responsibility. the most important thing in the world is emotional health. and what this society is very short on is emotional health. because we all are streched to the limit between our jobs, finances, and million kids with all their complications. And its beautiful! and wonderful! but NOT calm.

the best teacher in the world is LIFE, not school. You cannot compare being on time or getting a punishment--to showing up for your husband or you get divorced. People learn responsibility (and emunah, and chessed, and love) on the job, not in superficial systems.

(now, if you want to get onto another topic of internal vs external motivation, and the problem with school and authoritative parenting to begin with...I have a lot to say on that as well. kitzur, it IS possible to teach kids responsibility but rules ruin any chance of them learning it.)
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amother




Seagreen


Post  Sun, Sep 15 2019, 10:35 pm
again if this is the policy and they have a week id very nicely state that again and tell them its the schools policy and hopefully next time their daughter will remember. Id end the convo if someone wasn't getting it by saying id love to talk more but have to get to my next class or whatever. v zeh hu
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MitzadSheini




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Sep 15 2019, 11:11 pm
IMHO, The trouble is that the consequences really have nothing to do with the crime, that's why everyone is getting angry.

If you're late, you need to stay back late- harsh but makes sense.

If you're late, you lose grades - makes no sense. In the end you can have a person who does not understand the material get a higher grade than one who does. That's ridiculous.

A better system would be where the Grade and Absences both appear separately on the report card. If a person has a report card full of As, but missed 50% of school, then it is up to the potential employer to decide whether they read this as-

"bright probably bored kid, I'll take them on"

Or

"bright but lazy kid, I'm not interested".

As an employed teacher I'm not sure what you can do other than politely suggest an alternative system, but I believe that is where the problem lies.
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amother




Beige


Post  Mon, Sep 16 2019, 12:58 am
Here's my opinion on attendance policies, especially ones that require a parental phone call: The school takes responsibility for its students for the duration of a school day. If a student doesn't show up, the way the school knows not to worry is if a parent called in. It is NOT to control or dictate when and how a student should show up to school, nor is it a way of raising coddled children (I do agree that calling the school after the consequence, especially in this scenario, is not a smart choice.) It just a way to be accountable for all the students.
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creditcards




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Sep 16 2019, 1:57 am
OP.
Why do you care so much about the kids being responsible. I personally think it's mean for punishing a kid for coming late or not coming on time to speak to you. The ones who come late will continue to come late. It's a personality thing that is not so easy to change. I was a chronic latecomer in school and I was constantly sitting detention. How was that helpful to anyone? When I started working I tried coming on time but didn't manage to but I always stayed late to finish. Let everyone figure out their lives and find their jobs that will work for them. Punishing kids in high school will not help anyone in real life and is cruelty in my opinion. Let them finish their childhoods in peice. If my school would have this rule I would make sure that every girl came to explain her lateness ontime to avoid any unpleasant situations. It's a silly rule to begin with. Try to get around it if you are a nice person.
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amother




Chocolate


Post  Mon, Sep 16 2019, 3:36 am
I can't believe how many people are giving the OP a rough time about this. She's totally right. Did all of you just graduate?
In the RARE instance that something really tough happened at home, the mother can calmly explain it and perhaps get a break.
If they remember to call AFTER the fact, it means they could have called before and didn't take it seriously.
Yes, these kids sounds entitled.
and yes, also, as one poster noted, it's a ridiculous policy. In my kids's schools, you show up with a note and an excuse if you're late, or you don't get allowed in to class. End of story, no problems later.
OP, can you speak to the principal about changing the policy? There are ways to have the kids take responsibility without going through all of this hassle.
God luck, you're doing great!
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abound




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Sep 16 2019, 3:58 am
The teacher is 100% right! I have kids in High school. Either do it right or face the consequence.
If this was a dire situation (like someone terminally ill or something like that) I would understand making allowances. Something like a family wedding etc, is ridiculous.
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teachkids




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Sep 16 2019, 6:47 am
It sounds like there aren't necessarily consequences for the kid as long as she speaks to the teacher within the week. The problem is when the kids can't handle that small task and parents call after the fact trying to fix their kids' boo-boos
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amother




Honeydew


Post  Mon, Sep 16 2019, 6:50 am
OP,

I agree with you. The parents do their kids no favors when when deadlines are fungible. I was truant 3 days out of 5 in HS. I missed more classes than I attended. I stayed up too late and slept in . My parents signed every note I gave them. As long as I was an honors student, they didn't care if I attended class.

When I was in grad school, I called up a professor who was in Switzerland, at a time when long distance meant something, to change my grade from a B to an A, so I could keep my scholarship. I thought nothing of this. A friend overheard me and was appalled that I would do such a thing.

I was forever blowing deadlines and talking my way back into favor. There was no excuse for this. It was how I got conditioned. I am shul glad my friend overheard me, and I could see what I was doing.
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amother




Chocolate


Post  Mon, Sep 16 2019, 7:47 am
amother [ Honeydew ] wrote:
OP,

I agree with you. The parents do their kids no favors when when deadlines are fungible. I was truant 3 days out of 5 in HS. I missed more classes than I attended. I stayed up too late and slept in . My parents signed every note I gave them. As long as I was an honors student, they didn't care if I attended class.

When I was in grad school, I called up a professor who was in Switzerland, at a time when long distance meant something, to change my grade from a B to an A, so I could keep my scholarship. I thought nothing of this. A friend overheard me and was appalled that I would do such a thing.

I was forever blowing deadlines and talking my way back into favor. There was no excuse for this. It was how I got conditioned. I am shul glad my friend overheard me, and I could see what I was doing.


What's your point if everything always worked in your favor? Did you have any fallout from this?
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ShishKabob




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Sep 16 2019, 12:37 pm
cnc wrote:
What exactly is the policy?

Because in the high school that I attended and in the high school that I worked at, that was exactly the protocol that was expected. Parents needed to call in and explain why their daughter was late or absent. Sounds very reasonable to me.

I don't think this is reasonable. Sorry,
I think that a high school girl is big enough to call in herself.
If she can't be trusted with the reason for it, we have way bigger issues at hand.
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ora_43




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Sep 16 2019, 12:51 pm
amother [ Crimson ] wrote:
And then her grades are going to be lowered and she just can't handle this because this would be the last straw to hangig onto her sanity. she she calls up ad swears at the (sorry) ignorent naieve 25 year old teacher to just let her daughter off the hook for gods sake.

You lost me here.

If a teacher lowered my teen's grade for showing up late, you know what I'd think? I'd think, good. Better she learn now that there are consequences to her actions, than get hit in the face with it when the stakes are a lot higher.

And really, it's the perfect punishment, because there's no reason for me to get involved at all. If your hypothetical mom-of-teens sees this as the Last Straw, that's on her for trying to micro-manage her teen's life.
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ora_43




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Sep 16 2019, 12:56 pm
I agree with your rant, OP.

I have a couple relatives who teach in universities. This is one of their constant complaints - that young adults are increasingly completely unprepared to be responsible for their own learning. Like, just a basic lack of understanding of cause and effect as it relates to their own lives and futures.

I'll be honest, I don't know if any punishments in high school ever made me change my behavior. But I do think there's value just to seeing your own actions lead to natural consequences.
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ShishKabob




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Sep 16 2019, 12:59 pm
ora_43 wrote:
I agree with your rant, OP.

I have a couple relatives who teach in universities. This is one of their constant complaints - that young adults are increasingly completely unprepared to be responsible for their own learning. Like, just a basic lack of understanding of cause and effect as it relates to their own lives and futures.

I'll be honest, I don't know if any punishments in high school ever made me change my behavior. But I do think there's value just to seeing your own actions lead to natural consequences.

I agree with this as well.
We don't do any favors for our kids by doing everything for them.
ex: You spoke 'chutzpadik', I am not going to call the teacher for you. Call her yourself, write an apology by yourself, and see what it feels like to take responsibility for your actions.
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itsmeima




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Sep 16 2019, 1:20 pm
Apparently it doesn't end there, nowadays parents are in touch with their daughters/sons boss...
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