High school chesed programs

ruchelbuckle

Mon, Sep 23 2019, 6:16 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

To clarify, the only problem I have is that such a program is mandatory. Allow the parents to decide if their kid should or should not partake. Again, I feel the school is overstepping its boundaries by enforcing what my daughter should do after school hours. I don't need to come to them to beg for permission for my own daughter to help me instead of someone else. They should come to me for permission to send my daughter on chessed opportunities.

So then you need to have a pleasant chat with a school admin about the program. If your daughter had a standing OT appointment every Wednesday afternoon, from 5:15-6pm, surely your daughter would be able to attend. I am not sure why this is different.

That being said, it is reasonable for the school to ask you to be flexible. Maybe you don't want to give up your daughter every Thursday from 7-8pm to attend an extra-curricular. But I think it's reasonable for them to ask your daughter to commit to 1 set hour per week -- one hour that works for all parties involved, including her parents-- to participate in a chessed activity.

amother

Beige

Mon, Sep 23 2019, 6:27 pm

I think it's a holdover from years ago when the frum world was smaller and everyone knew everyone else. Now that the community has grown, and people call to put themselves in the list for girls or on behalf of others, there is no way to properly vet all the families where girls are being sent to. Even if they do give a reference or rav's name I don't think it's sufficient, safety wise. Not to mention, some of the situations where girls are going to help may be dysfunctional and in need of serious, professional help, not an innocent young girl.

southernbubby

Mon, Sep 23 2019, 6:53 pm

amother [ Purple ] wrote:

I'm wondering if you feel the same way about production/play. It's usually mandatory. It often keeps the girls in school late once a week for a couple months and then almost daily for a week or two at the end. You can get your daughter out of it, but she may not be happy about it.

That's hard on everyone because there are no available babysitters when girls have finals and play practice but the difference is that it's for the girls. These girls should not be forced to be free babysitters, social workers, and nurses. If they want to do it at a time when they are not needed by their own families then great, the same way that their mothers may do chessed at a time that is not at the expense of the family.
One of my granddaughters does a children's program on Shabbos morning which is fine because nobody takes advantage of her but I don't want her to become somebody's free babysitter. She also helps out at home.
These girls should not be burned out by the time they are adults.
Encourage chessed but don't force.

amother

Mon, Sep 23 2019, 7:38 pm

ruchelbuckle wrote:

That being said, it is reasonable for the school to ask you to be flexible. Maybe you don't want to give up your daughter every Thursday from 7-8pm to attend an extra-curricular. But I think it's reasonable for them to ask your daughter to commit to 1 set hour per week -- one hour that works for all parties involved, including her parents-- to participate in a chessed activity.

Why is it reasonable for schools to ask for anything outside of school hours. Sorry - I meant demand - not ask? I need that flexibility for myself. I don't know when I need to work late, and I don't know too much in advance which day of the week I may need to pull an evening shift. The last thing I need now is to have to consider another scheduling conflict in my daily setup.

I may have a unique situation, I understand that. But I find it very frustrating for the school to continuously impinge on territory that's not under their purview (I won't list all my grievances here, as to not upset this thread). After school hours are not theirs for the taking, nor should they delegate how my daughters spends those hours.

If its such an integral part of their curriculum, take the last period of one day of the week and have the kids do the chessed project then. Why can this only be done on the parents' account?

groovy1224

Mon, Sep 23 2019, 7:47 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Bored? The girls have so much homework, and other school projects, they can barely breathe.

I'm not sure I understand you.

Here you're saying she's so overloaded she has no time to breathe.

But then how are you expecting her to help out at home? You can't say she doesn't have time to do the school chesed program because she's already so overburdened but then expect to put her to work..

I just don't think it's fair to say she can't do this extra curricular once a week because you need her help. I get that it's hard to raise a young family and it's okay to expect family to do their part but her job right now is to be a kid, IMO.

amother

Mistyrose

Mon, Sep 23 2019, 7:48 pm

In my school it wasn't mandatory. Many other schools I know had it mandatory but if the mother called and explained the situation, the school would excuse the girl (though it's not as easy as it sounds!)
I am the oldest girl from a large family and trust me, my mom needed my help. Nevertheless, my parents were extremely supportive and encouraged me and my sisters to do chessed outside the home.
They felt that 1)It is a good life skill to know how to come into a home or situation that is less than ideal and swing it. I've gained a lot from learning how to come into a strange home, knowing what to say and do and when.
2) It's not like I couldn't find 2 hours to spare a week. Most girls could find a bit of extra time to help someone else. As much as I helped out at home, I found the time to shmooze on the phone, take walks, go to the mall, etc. - so why can't I carve out an hour to help another family?
3) It teaches girls that as much as they think they or their family needs the help, there is always someone who needs it more. My parents live with this motto. They are incredibly busy and yet, they are always looking out to help others. They don't have lots of money, but they are always looking to share with others. They always think: "who could use the help more than me."
On erev yt, my mother would think, "yt will come into our house on time and everything will fall into place. But Mrs. x will prob. not get to finish cooking or cleaning in time because she is really not managing".
This thinking shaped the way I look at things and turned me into an adult who is willing to bend myself over for others, even if it may not be so convenient.
It's important to learn that if we wait for the perfect opportunity to do chessed, the time may never come.
And BTW, don't think I grew up in a house where chessed came before us. We were ALWAYS the priority.

Just wanted to give some perspective, but ultimatly, it is 100% understandable for a mother to say she needs her daughter home.

amother

Mon, Sep 23 2019, 7:53 pm

groovy1224 wrote:

I don't ask from her too much. But I need her to be available for me whenever the need crops up. That need is dynamic, and having her commit to a schedule will be a problem for me.

If you're referring to the high school production's extra hours, I totally agree with you. Her job is now to be the kid and I'll do what it takes during those few weeks. But having her be a babysitter, household help for a stranger instead of her mother does in no way relate to her being a kid.

Again, I totally understand the value of such a program. I'm not discussing that. I'm 'whining' about the school mandating the kid's involvement. They don't have any right to demand this of parents and if they feel so strongly about it, allot some school hours for it. I think the kids will actually enjoy doing their job being a kid, if it's done during school hours.

southernbubby

Mon, Sep 23 2019, 8:04 pm

amother [ Mistyrose ] wrote:

If that is the way that the mother views it then great but if the mother is not managing, then she is not in a position to farm out her daughter.

Our girls' high school had a stipulation that all girls had to be camp counselors but if a girl really hated it, the campers would be affected. The school had to let up on the expectation.

Maybe schools could include chessed that could be done from home such as sending out mailings for an organization or putting together craft projects for a teacher.

Why does it have to involve babysitting and housekeeping for other families if the daughter needs to be home for the younger siblings?

chestnut

Mon, Sep 23 2019, 8:54 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I often run late at work, or work evenings and I need her around just to keep the daily grind going when that happens. Little things here and there, that make all the difference for the rest of the household. I don't think I need to account for the school why I need my daughter to be on hand for me. If they want to establish a program for after school hours, they should come ask me for my permission, and not have me run to them and beg them to allow me to keep my daughter on hand for my needs.

Then she can do her hours on sundays

chestnut

Mon, Sep 23 2019, 8:56 pm

amother [ Purple ] wrote:

Took out the words out of my mouth. These last much longer than 1h once a week.
OP, are you as upset during this time that your daughter isn't available to be home when you're running late from work?

amother

Mon, Sep 23 2019, 9:11 pm

chestnut wrote:

Then she can do her hours on sundays

No, she can't. Sunday is a work day for me as well.

This is the precisely the attitude I find so annoying. I don't need you or the school to tell me what my daughter can or cannot do. I believe, that as her mother, I'm fairly well equipped to know what my daughter can or cannot undertake.

Something outside of school should totally be my decision (along with my husband, and daughter's input). With what knowledge are you taking upon yourself to make decisions that affect my household?

We have allowed schools to become the rulers of our life.

amother

Mon, Sep 23 2019, 9:20 pm

chestnut wrote:

Took out the words out of my mouth. These last much longer than 1h once a week.
OP, are you as upset during this time that your daughter isn't available to be home when you're running late from work?

Thank goodness, my daughter shows more caring and understanding than many adults. The few weeks that it involves after school hours, she tries her utmost to work it out with me. And I extend myself those few weeks as much as I could. It's very far from easy though.

I've gotten one thing from this thread, besides for 'whining'. I'm now immensely proud of my daughter, as I see she's demonstrates more responsiveness, understanding and character than people double her age.

southernbubby

Mon, Sep 23 2019, 9:25 pm

And if a girl's own mother is overwhelmed or in need, and the girl only has so much time after school, homework, and production, why should the mother give the daughter to someone else?
It's wonderful if the family can spare the daughter and the daughter wants to help someone but neither should be made to feel guilty if this isn't possible.
Why is chessed being turned into a burden? How many people here run to help a neighbor while ignoring the needs of the family?
I agree with those schools who allow the chessed to be done at home.

amother

Tangerine

Mon, Sep 23 2019, 9:30 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

So you expect your daughter to be home every single day after school? Is that what she would choose to do if given the choice?