High school chesed programs

amother

Slategray

Tue, Sep 24 2019, 8:03 am

I dont have a high school age daughter. I could use a chesed girl. A girl to even help my child with homework a sometimes she need a little extra. All the high schools say they dont have anyone, the girls are doing more glorifying jobs helping out big organizations. When I was in high school there were many kids that enjoyed these type of jobs. Not everyone has younger sibling, not everyone who has younger siblings mother needs there help and some people enjoy little kids, enjoy holding a newborn for a mother who just had a baby.I also had friends who wanted to be teachers and they were the ones who enjoyed the tutoring jobs and helping with homework. The big organizations can find anyone, any age . There is now no girls in the neighborhood. They are busy doing there load of homework, there chesed job, chilling from there very long day, helping there mother. In this order. And no, not everyone enjoys this type of chesed it's not a chill time for them. But they are doing it because its either mandatory or so there teacher or principal will think highly of them. I live in Lakewood btw. So if anyone had any ideas or knows a school that has girls and is not an exception to the rule let me know

watergirl

Tue, Sep 24 2019, 8:20 am

southernbubby wrote:

Exactly!
But I also think that there could be numerous ways to do chessed that a teenager is capable of doing that doesn't require her to run from her own overwhelmed mother to help another overwhelmed mother.
Maybe a group of girls can do a project with nursing home residents.
I just think that we shouldn't overwhelm families to teach chessed.
And one of my DILs felt fullfilled as a teen doing chessed for a struggling family in the community so some girls really do choose that.

Forget OP at the moment. I know this is her thread about her situation; my comment is about high school chessed programs in general.

Many schools are moving away from the old model of sending girls to people's homes in general. There is more awareness in general of the safety of sending girls to stranger's homes and for other reasons as well, its not as common as it was before. I think that's a good thing.

I remember as a teen going to the homes of these overwhelmed mothers. We were a co-ed modern orthodox high school. These situations were a very big turn off to many of us from this way of life - the homes we were sent to were more from the community where the school was situated which was a more right wing area. Many girls walked away thinking and talking about how this is not a life they would ever want. We were taken advantage of. We were supposed to be working with the kids on their homework to free up the mothers to do other housework, but we ended up doing dishes. The rule of the school's chessed program, and the families who partnered with the school and received a student knew and agreed on what the teen's job in their home was. And yet week after week, we were taken advantage of. And I know after talking to many friends from different cities that this is very common.

I cant speak to the experience of a BY student who is sent to someone's home for chessed, my teen does school chessed but its never at anyone's home.

Is it the job of our teens to go and help overwhelmed mothers? Or is it the job of the community to somehow be proactive to prevent the issues which cause the mothers to be overwhelmed in the first place and offer assistance in other ways if the mother is overwhelmed? And should a teen have to work so hard to help her own overwhelmed mother? Again, this is not directed at OP. Sometimes I look around my house and see a massive disaster, dishes, cooking, laundry, kids who need to bathe, YT to cook for, a real disaster. But I created this situation and its not on my teen to step in and help dig me out of it. My husband is my partner, he is the one who signed up for this with me. My teen has to help, of course. Every child in my house has their tasks. But there is a balance and she never asked to be in this situation. My hot mess is not her hot mess.

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I haven't discounted the validity or the nature of such programs. I'm just "whining" about the fact that the school is imposing on the parent's such mandatory requirements. They're overstepping their bounds by enforcing this outside of school hours. If it's what its made out to be, then why not designate the last period of a school day for the girls to partake in this?

I'm all for such programs - just make it voluntary or on the school's time.

RE: the bold - FWIW, in the state where I live, all public schools require community service hours which are done outside of school time in order to graduate. Its well over 80 hours for two years.

amother

Navy

Tue, Sep 24 2019, 9:06 am

I was not sent to random homes of overwhelmed mothers. One year I helped the older siblings with homework in a home where a younger sibling had a disability. Another year I helped with homework in a home where both parents were immigrants and less capable of assisting with class work. Another year I helped with young kids whose mother had developed a debilitating physical condition. I had one friend whose own mother relied on her a lot and she requested from the school that her help at home should be her chesed hours. They were fine with that, and she never did outside chesed in HS. Other friends went to the nursing home on shabbos afternoon. There's a huge variety and I doubt the school would be so rigid that they would force a girl to do one particular type of chesed, or even ant chesed outside the home after school during the week.

amother

Tue, Sep 24 2019, 9:11 am

Squishy wrote:

OP,

You keep mentioning doing it during school hours. I would be furious at the school for this. Once right before Pesach is fine, but I am not paying tuition for DD not to learn weekly.

Now I'm the one who is genuinely curious. Is not learning how to give of one oneself and do for others something important that all children should learn?

Is school only for academics? If you believe that, then why should the school be implementing a chessed program to begin with? They should focus on the academics, and leave the rest to the parents. Otherwise, you're saying, school IS for more than just academics, and schools retain the first dibs on all hours of your daughter's day. School first, parents/life second.

amother

Tue, Sep 24 2019, 9:20 am

amother [ Tangerine ] wrote:

Really? Providing your child with a good education, a home, and meals to eat means that you're entitled to dictate their entire life outside of school? I provide those things to my children with no strings attached because that's called being a parent. They have their daily responsibilities, but they do not need to be at my beck and call to earn their keep.

It's fascinating how you keep on stretching & extending my words. I wasn't aware that my teenage daughter carrying the awareness with her that she may need to be available to help out home is dictating her entire life outside of school. Neither was I aware that having a teenage daughter check in with you prior to going out with her friends, or staying late in school, is having her at my beck & call. Nor was I aware that lending a hand in the house a few hours a week is considered earning her keep.

amother Tangerine - asking sincerely. Were your teenage years as you've described above? You seem to be leaning to the extremes at the mere mention of this subject. I assure you that it's very possible for a girl to be available to help out a home when needed, plus have a healthy life outside of school, as well as partake in some extra curriculars too.

watergirl

Tue, Sep 24 2019, 9:25 am

amother [ Slategray ] wrote:

Please see my previous post. Many schools have stopped sending girls to private homes for various reasons, all legitimate. I know you need the help and I’m sure its hard. I hope it gets easier for you.

Chayalle

Tue, Sep 24 2019, 9:28 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

It's totally subjective, that's why I'm asking why they can't make these programs voluntary instead of mandatory.

To me, one day a week is a lot. I have one daughter to give a hand, and while she helps out somewhat, she's reluctant to step up when I ask her to. So she'll be running out to give a hand to someone else, while I'll be left without any help at all. Why isn't Chesed at home considered to be worthy?

To be honest, this sounds like too much pressure on your daughter.

I'm a firm believer in kids (girls and boys) helping out at home because it's good for them to help out, it develops responsibility and a good work ethic, when it's in the proper amount/proportion and the expectations are reasonable, age appropriate, and realistic. And in this sense, yes, Chessed begins at home.

But....We don't have them help at home because we need all the help we can get, and we think it's their job to give it to us. Because it's not - it's yours and your husband's job to figure that out.

So going out once a week might actually be very healthy and appropriate for your daughter.

Can your other kids pitch in too on the night she's out? Even younger kids can learn to do some jobs at home. And if they are boys, even better - B"EH they will learn to help their wives out in the future. They should not be given the idea that their one and only sister is required to do all the household chores.

Chayalle

Tue, Sep 24 2019, 9:43 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

OP, I think when you use words like "entitled to my daughter's help", some of your posts (maybe inadvertently) give off a certain vibe that you are entitled to control her at all times. Some posters are picking up on this (myself included, some of your posts do come across that way to a subjective outsider.)

This may very well not be the case. Remember that online posts are different than real-life conversations where people go off of your words without body language, facial expression, and normal give-and-take that give the complete picture more accurately.

I can hear that once-a-week is alot for a chessed program. I remember in my high school, we had to do twice a term, and in my DD's high school, it's voluntary (but I strongly encouraged her to participate, and in fact, DD used to go once a week. Now that she's post high-school, she still participates in Chessed programs by driving for them.)

Perhaps you can communicate with the school and come to some sort of agreement with them about how often going outside the home could work out for you. Maybe she can do it less often if it doesn't work for you.

amother

Mustard

Tue, Sep 24 2019, 9:47 am

amother [ White ] wrote:

As someone whose mother always needed her , I was very happy to get a chance to help out with kids who weren't my siblings and to get to schmooze and build relationships with my chessed families . It's important for kids to do things regularly outside of the house and not be a 2nd or 3rd adult.
And it was very hard for me to hear my mother complain or get upset about school extra curiculuum stuff as I was torn between doing what my mother wanted and what I wanted .

Wow this really struck a cord with me! I never even thought about this before- but as the oldest girl who had to shoulder a lot of responsibility at home, and always did what was asked of her, I actually loved the mandatory chessed- where I was able to tutor Jewish public school kids in some Jewish subjects and visit homebound elderly with no local family- together with a friend or 2, which for me was both chessed- and a chance to get out a bit with friends. I didn't really have the opportunity to do other extracurricular kind of activities or go out with friends because I was helping out at home a lot, but the "mandatory chessed hours" ended up being great for me, and I also made new friends from different grades and classes during that time.
I also learned some skills and experience outside the home as opposed to only within the family context.
Ironically sometimes the girls whose mother's complain the most that chessed begins in the home are the ones who need this kind of "mandatory" outlet the most.
This struck a cord with me from my personal experience- not passing judgement on the OP, and actually I had no resentment to my parents when I was growing up and in this situation. I was actually happy to help out the family, it's only now looking back that I see how the situation was.
(Also if the girl is being forced to do chessed for another overwhelmed mom and it is not pleasant for her that can defeat the purpose)

amother

Chocolate

Tue, Sep 24 2019, 9:51 am

amother [ White ] wrote:

Same here. I was very resentful that my mother didn't want me to go out (for just 1 hour a week!) I felt like I was being used. I was happy to help, and believe me, I gave my mother plenty of time, but it would have been nice to not feel guilty about wanting to be part of everything that everyone else had a chance to be.
OP may have a very different situation, but it is important to not have a daughter feel like she is the one being relied upon for an overwhelmed mother. She definitely should learn to give to her family and not only think of herself, but ultimately it is not her job to make sure the house runs smoothly
(I am sorry if I am taking out my feelings on you, it's just something I feel strongly about)

33055

Tue, Sep 24 2019, 9:53 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Learning to give off oneself is taught at home and in the community from modeling adult behavior. It should be deeply ingrained by HS.

I pay a fortune in tuition. I rather DD be learning math or science than cleaning up someone else's house.

Religious schools should teach more than just academics. This is the time for DD to grow and learn. Parents and schools should partner in this endeavor.

I needed DD's assistance one year. The schools not only allowed DD to assist me, they assisted her assisting me.

amother

Tue, Sep 24 2019, 9:54 am

Chayalle wrote:

I hear you in regards to my word choice. Though I think I only used that term when I was comparing the school's demand for her help, vs mine. If it comes between choosing to help an outsider, or to help her mother, I believe I am the one entitled to to have that help. I specifically chose that word, because I firmly believe that schools & yeshivas are infringing on parents' territories in many ways.

I am taking this up with the school. My intent for this thread was just to vent (or whine) about the school placing mandates on stuff outside of their jurisdiction, so to speak. The school has every right to suggest and encourage girls to partake in any program they choose, but they should be the ones coming to the parents for permission & not have the parents come groveling to them to beg for permission to let my daughter off the hook.

amother

Tue, Sep 24 2019, 10:05 am

Squishy wrote:

Are we truly partners, or are the schools in charge and they subjectively listen to parents' input? Partners don't make unilateral decisions, especially on the stuff that is the other partners' workload. If a partner wants to do something, they discuss and work out the details with the other partner. They don't set things in motion and place mandate on the other partner, and only acquiesce one the partner comes pleading to them. This is more of a dominant/submissive setup.

School usually dangle the word partner as a sweetener to do as they please.

Yep, I'm frustrated in more ways than one with the controls schools & yeshivas employ over us. I guess that's underlying my posts here. I'm frustrated that I can't be the one to decide if my sons should or should not attend the Siyum HaShas. I'm frustrated that the school has a right to dictate my daughter's winter vacation plans, and so on. How did the schools become the governing bodies of our homes and yiddishkeit?

I guess I just hijacked my own thread Smile

amother

Purple

Tue, Sep 24 2019, 10:07 am

I was once told that no child should feel that the family would collapse without their consistent contributions. Unfortunately, I was told this after I over-relied on my dd. I didn't feel I had a choice, but eventually she collapsed under the stress of it. In retrospect, it would have saved me more money and effort to hire someone to do what she had been doing.

Which is why my chief question to OP is: does dd want to do the outside chesed? I get the challenges. Especially when the days you need her vary, its a real problem to get outside help in. It sounds like you two have a nice flexible arrangement- if you manage to accommodate production, I imagine the same is true for chagiga, finals, etc. That's not easy, so yasher koach. If dd does want to do outside chesed, arrangements can be made. Shabbos help, or getting the school to count summer hours and then putting in reduced hours during the year, or taking a late time at which you are usually home, etc.

Also ask yourself what you will do when she graduates. I have a friend with serious needs in her house and the girls all help out. My friend specifically sends them away to camp (if they want to go) so they have time with no major responsibilities, and away for seminary (again, if they want.) They know their contributions are really important, but their family can manage without them.

Edit: Just read you prior two posts. I definitely get all of that, and relate.

amother

Turquoise

Tue, Sep 24 2019, 10:08 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

No, she can't. Sunday is a work day for me as well.

This is the precisely the attitude I find so annoying. I don't need you or the school to tell me what my daughter can or cannot do. I believe, that as her mother, I'm fairly well equipped to know what my daughter can or cannot undertake.

Something outside of school should totally be my decision (along with my husband, and daughter's input). With what knowledge are you taking upon yourself to make decisions that affect my household?

We have allowed schools to become the rulers of our life.

How old is your daughter? How many children does she have to take care of when you are at work on sunday and how old are these kids? Where is your husband and why cant he help out? Does your daughter get paid to babysit for you while you are at work on sundays or is she just expected to give up all her sundays because you need to work? Why can't you hire a babysitter instead of relying on your daughter?