High school chesed programs

amother

Apricot

Tue, Sep 24 2019, 10:11 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Are we truly partners, or are the schools in charge and they subjectively listen to parents' input? Partners don't make unilateral decisions, especially on the stuff that is the other partners' workload. If a partner wants to do something, they discuss and work out the details with the other partner. They don't set things in motion and place mandate on the other partner, and only acquiesce one the partner comes pleading to them. This is more of a dominant/submissive setup.

School usually dangle the word partner as a sweetener to do as they please.

Yep, I'm frustrated in more ways than one with the controls schools & yeshivas employ over us. I guess that's underlying my posts here. I'm frustrated that I can't be the one to decide if my sons should or should not attend the Siyum HaShas. I'm frustrated that the school has a right to dictate my daughter's winter vacation plans, and so on. How did the schools become the governing bodies of our homes and yiddishkeit?

I guess I just hijacked my own thread Smile

Sounds like you send to autocratic schools. Find a place with an involved parent board and you won't be undermined as much.
It's true that no one likes every school rule, but parents pay the bills. They have every right to an education that reflects their values.

southernbubby

Tue, Sep 24 2019, 10:17 am

While children no longer earn their keep, not so long ago they did! My father , OBM, was born in 1926 and his parents divorced in 1928. At age 9, he was doing a variety of odd jobs, sometimes making more money than my grandmother. His money was part of the household budget.
Many girls in large, financially strapped frum families buy their own clothes and toiletries from babysitting money which helps with the family budget.
How much free babysitting should these girls be doing?

amother

Tue, Sep 24 2019, 10:25 am

amother [ Chocolate ] wrote:

Same here. I was very resentful that my mother didn't want me to go out (for just 1 hour a week!) I felt like I was being used. I was happy to help, and believe me, I gave my mother plenty of time, but it would have been nice to not feel guilty about wanting to be part of everything that everyone else had a chance to be.
OP may have a very different situation, but it is important to not have a daughter feel like she is the one being relied upon for an overwhelmed mother. She definitely should learn to give to her family and not only think of herself, but ultimately it is not her job to make sure the house runs smoothly
(I am sorry if I am taking out my feelings on you, it's just something I feel strongly about)

No worries. I have no concerns that my daughter is overwhelmed with any of my responsibilities. All it takes is a healthy balance, and that's easily worked out. I ask of her the responsibility to be available for me on the days that I need her, and in turn I negate other responsibilities and apply other considerations as needed. She often brings her friends home to study in my house, instead of going to theirs. Or I'll tell her that I'll take care of folding the laundry tonight, so she can go out with her friends. And the like. We have an open and honest communication style, and we work stuff out as needed.

I've spoken with her machaneches and other teachers to see if there's any underpinnings of resentment, besides the usual teenage angst. I've only gotten responses to the contrary, that her midos and character she possesses is extraordinary for someone her age. She is an extremely well-rounded, happy, mature & responsible girl, & very intelligent to boot. - Those are all their words, not mine. Hashem has blessed me with wonderful children, and I thank Him for that every single day.

amother

Tue, Sep 24 2019, 10:35 am

amother [ Turquoise ] wrote:

How old is your daughter? How many children does she have to take care of when you are at work on sunday and how old are these kids? Where is your husband and why cant he help out? Does your daughter get paid to babysit for you while you are at work on sundays or is she just expected to give up all her sundays because you need to work? Why can't you hire a babysitter instead of relying on your daughter?

I don't need to justify myself, but I'll humor your questions. She is 15, she doesn't 'take care' of anyone, just supervises a 7 and a 9 year old. Husband works late too. (Yep, we didn't plan this, but life has plans of its own). No, I don't feel the need to pay my daughter for lending a hand in the house. She has school on Sundays and I don't work every Sunday, so she has many a Sunday after school hours for herself. And I'm really scratching my head on your last question. Are we of totally new times where parents are no longer allowed to rely on a child's contribution to the household and expected to outsource any request for help?

amother

Dodgerblue

Tue, Sep 24 2019, 10:40 am

op- this is so family specific. different people do things differently. If it's working for you and your family then it's working. It sounds like you just need her present. 7 and 9 year olds are very different then a baby and a 2 year old. It sounds like you are aware and take her feelings in to consideration. I think just talk to the school.

ShishKabob

Tue, Sep 24 2019, 10:42 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

School is asking for one day a week. That's a lot, imo.

I agree with you. It's too much. Once a month maybe.
For the girls that are a huge help at home, it cripples their own mother when their not available to help out. It's always easier to help out other people. That's why there's such a halacha that tzeddaka should be done first with your own family, then with the ppl from your own city and so on.
I think the chessed program is made for girls that don't need to help out at home and they want them to see what its like to help out.
However, honestly, I don't think that's the reason. If it was, there would be a box on the sheet to check off if your mother needs your chesed first.
Maybe someone from a High School can chime in and bring their perspective into this.

amother

Slateblue

Tue, Sep 24 2019, 10:51 am

I agree with you, op. I am still resentful of my High school's chesed program 15 years later. We actually had to get a certain number of hours per year, but they didn't specify how, so I got it all out of the way pretty early on by spending like 3 Sundays at a nursing home. Then the teacher in charge of the chesed program told me that wasn't acceptable. My father had cancer at the time and my mother tried to get an exception because I really was needed at home, they didn't budge. Soured me on chesed for a long time. Same teacher nearly ruined my relationship with tefilla too (thankfully a different teacher somewhat saved it. Though I have very complicated feelings about davening to this day).

ShishKabob

Tue, Sep 24 2019, 10:56 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I think it's terrible that we have to excuse ourselves if our daughters help us take care of their siblings. No one is talking about a takeover mother here.
Now you know why the schools are so out of touch?
And I also don't want to have to be the mother that calls in so that my daughter can be exempt. It shouldn't come down to this.
How in heavens name does a young lady learn how to manage a home with children if she doesn't have time to pitch in at home? Most of the time is spent with homework, the rest should be used up to go to other peoples homes? Doesn't make sense to me.

amother

Turquoise

Tue, Sep 24 2019, 11:02 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I was asking because people were commenting without knowing the details so not sure how they can give advice since its very different if you have 12 kids vs only 3 kids or toddlers/newborns vs 10/11 year olds. Your younger kids can have play dates when you go to work on sundays at their friends houses and then you can have the play dates at your house when you are not working. This will allow your 15 year old to be free on sundays. The middle of the week may be harder to have play dates but it can still be arranged if your 15 year old is not available. There are probably other creative ways around this without burdening your 15 year old I.e you can put your younger kids in an after school program or have them stay with a neighbor for a few hours etc. After all, they just need supervision not care as you said so you can just find other ways for them to be supervised when your daughter isnt available.

ShishKabob

Tue, Sep 24 2019, 11:05 am

amother [ Turquoise ] wrote:

I was asking because people were commenting without knowing the details so not sure how they can give advice since its very different if you have 12 kids vs only 3 kids. Your younger kids can have play dates when you go to work on sundays at their friends houses and then you can have the play dates at your house when you are not working. This will allow your 15 year old to be free on sundays. The middle of the week may be harder to have play dates but it can still be arranged if your 15 year old is not available. There are probably other creative ways around this without burdening your 15 year old I.e you can put your younger kids in an after school program or have them stay with a neighbor for a few hours etc. After all, they just need supervision not care as you said so you can just find other ways for them to be supervised when your daughter isnt available.

If I am comprehending this properly, it sounds like a very distorted view.
A mother has to twist herself into a pretzel and make playdates and what not with the younger kids so the 15 year old should be available to do chesed elsewhere?
If this is not insanity what is?

amother

Turquoise

Tue, Sep 24 2019, 11:10 am

ShishKabob wrote:

Actually, whats twisted is a 15 year old kid has to give up her sundays/weekday afternoons to watch her siblings because the mother is not capable of doing it.. The children are the mothers responsibility, not the daughters so if there are ways around it then the older kids shouldnt be burdened with the responsibility of taking care of the younger kids.

ShishKabob

Tue, Sep 24 2019, 11:15 am

amother [ Turquoise ] wrote:

It is twisted. However, that's the situation these days. Why do you think the mother in unavailable? is it because she's galavanting on 5th Ave in Manhattan just chilling? She's working herself to her bone so her children will have clothing to wear, food to eat and a school to go to.
She IS TAKING CARE of her children.
Do you think this 15 year old will die if she helps out her mother? We're not talking about her mothering the children.

amother

Babypink

Tue, Sep 24 2019, 11:55 am

I’m just chiming in to say that I was also picturing a 15 year old with a bunch of younger kids that need active babysitting. This is a very different picture and it sounds like you have a good balance.

Does she want to do Chessed? I really genuinely loved it, more than many other extracurricular I took part in...

I think you can come up with an alternative that’s reasonable and just tell the school that’s what you’re doing. If you need to beg then the problem is ‘school being disrespectful of parent’. This is not a chessed problem or a relying on your daughter problem then.

One year I offered to go one night a week to a neighbor with multiples- but I would tell her at the beginning of the week which night and really enjoyed it. Nursing home visits are a good idea and also more flexible...

amother

Beige

Tue, Sep 24 2019, 12:05 pm

It's not an either/or.
I lived it.
No I wasn't running the house. But there genuinely was an unhealthy dynamic that built up a lot of resentment on both ends, to the end that I was 20 years old, in college, paying my own way and still needed to ask permission before accepting a paying babysitting job just in case my mother needed someone to watch younger siblings or else face an angry mother. It was way too enmeshed and she couldn't see it at all.

ShishKabob

Tue, Sep 24 2019, 12:08 pm

amother [ Beige ] wrote:

It's not an either/or.
I lived it.
No I wasn't running the house. But there genuinely was an unhealthy dynamic that built up a lot of resentment on both ends, to the end that I was 20 years old, in college, paying my own way and still needed to ask permission before accepting a paying babysitting job just in case my mother needed someone to watch younger siblings. It was way too enmeshed and she couldn't see it at all.

Look, probably in your situation it was too much. But please also realize that it's not the same all over. We're all coming with our own perspective. You from yours and me from mine! Smile

Wishing you lots of hatzlocha a brocha and a ksiva vchasima tova!

thunderstorm

Tue, Sep 24 2019, 12:11 pm

OP, I think the people that grew up like me , who had the full responsibility of practically running our home and taking care of our siblings while our mothers worked late and went to school at night (in my case) and I was always resentful I couldn’t stay late in school to have fun or chill with friends or do projects, or join production etc . because I knew I had to be home for my younger siblings to make and serve supper. Those amothers are the ones that found doing chesed outside the home as something important and as a way to “let go” a bit from real life responsibilities. However , after reading many of your other posts, it seems like there is a nice balance in the way you work with your daughter. I was definitely triggered by the way you mentioned that you are entitled to have your daughter home when you need her ...I think it’s because of what I gave up when I was 15. It affected me throughout my entire life. I harbor lots of resentment because I was put into a parent role when I was supposed to be a care free teen. I think that’s where some of the judgmental posts or disagreeing posts are coming from. Nobody is calling you a bad mother. People just don’t want a teen to go through what they went through. And since we don’t know you and you don’t know us , it’s hard to understand where each other are coming from. But it does sound like you are a wonderful mother daughter team and may it always be that way.

chestnut

Tue, Sep 24 2019, 12:17 pm

Ok, OP, it sounds like you're a smart woman with a great daughter. It also sounds like this is only a snippet of your problems with our current education system in general.
If your daughter wants to do Chessed, I suggest you let figure her out when she can spare 4h/month for that, while helping you out as necessary. Treat it as 1h/week that she goes out with her friends while you fold that laundry for her. You need her after school cause you're running late? Sure, she can then help someone for 1h at bedtime or motzei shabbos. Treat it as her schedule. The point is, it's absolutely doable if you want it to work instead of being resentful.
There's also an option to ask the school that you need her help at home.