Cant stand how much money it costs to be frum

ectomorph

Tue, Nov 26 2019, 12:40 am

chanchy123 wrote:

Absolutely.
I am frum, do not own a sheital, would have to look very hard to find a home *outside* an eiruv and food that was **not** kosher - and you'd probably have to pay extra for those.
For my elementry aged-children I pay the eqivelant of $60 a month in tuition.
The only serious expense on the list is tuition for my highschooler but that's more because she dorms in a private school.
It doesn't have to be that way.
I understand aliyah is not for everyone but it is possible to be a frum Jew without any extra expences.
Being frum in America and paying the price is a good reminder that America is not the ideal place to be a Jew.

Love this post

tilot37354

Tue, Nov 26 2019, 12:47 am

chanchy123 wrote:

In America you need to make $500k a year to put food on table, and in Israel there are no job opportunities to make $50k a year, so either way it's a struggle. I wouldn't make Aliyah for financial reasons unless you have $2M in the bank and want to retire on that. That would be possible in Israel, but not in America.

ectomorph

Tue, Nov 26 2019, 12:49 am

Homeschooling and co-op schooling is growing as a response to inflated tuition. Growing up I knew no one who didn't go to regular school unless very clear circumstances like illness or severe learning issues. Now it seems people are trying a lot of alternatives.

Many people try homeschooling for a few years, especially out of town where they know they can always go to the local school as a backup. I myself am considering homeschooling one of mine if I can't get a tuition break we need for next year (not from a regular frum school). It wouldn't come cheap, but cheaper than the tuition for that kid. (kid cant go to regular frum school, needs a particular private school, tuition in that private school is crazy and I'm not willing to public school).

essie14

Tue, Nov 26 2019, 12:53 am

chanchy123 wrote:

Yes, yes, and yes. Although I do own one sheitel Very Happy

essie14

Tue, Nov 26 2019, 12:55 am

tilot37354 wrote:

Are you kidding me? I know hundreds of people making a lot more than $50k a year in Israel. Although DH and I have lower gross salaries than we would have in the US, our cost of living is much lower and we come out ahead. We have extra money for things which we definitely wouldn't have if we still lived in America.
But we did not make aliyah for financial reasons, it's just a nice side benefit.

amother

Royalblue

Tue, Nov 26 2019, 1:17 am

tilot37354 wrote:

Going Anon, but dh and I pull in 28,000 nis/$8,000 a month AFTER taxes. Aka $96,000 a year.

We've been incredibly blessed with parnassa, but we also opened ourselves up for it . We both work in hitech. We knew ahead of time we wanted to be in Israel and chose fields accordingly.

That statement is just ridiculous.

amother

Peach

Tue, Nov 26 2019, 1:25 am

amother [ Royalblue ] wrote:

I feel like I'd rather be poor and do something I love.
I didn't know hitech was so lucrative here. Most people I know are making 6-9k a month.

shabbatiscoming

Tue, Nov 26 2019, 1:57 am

tilot37354 wrote:

What an incredible naive thing to write or knowledgeable.
First off, when people compare shekels to dollars, its a non starter. We live in israel so we think in shekels, not dollars, you just can not compare.
And of course there are people who are making more than $50k a year. Not everyone is making up to 10k shekels a month. There are many who are making more than that.
As for job opportunities, it just depends on what you do. Dont make sweeping generalizations if you dont know 100% what you are talking about.

amother

Royalblue

Tue, Nov 26 2019, 2:08 am

amother [ Peach ] wrote:

I feel like I'd rather be poor and do something I love.
I didn't know hitech was so lucrative here. Most people I know are making 6-9k a month.

The average salary in Israel is 11,000 nis a month. So the people that you know are earning below average amounts- not sure what they do, but not a representative sample.

We both happen to love what we do. (Dh isn't happy at his company, but fundamentally he's happy in his field- and hes a programmer, so he could find a job in three weeks if he actively looked.)

Just going back to the post about needing$50000 a year to live in Israel. $50,000 USD is about 173,000nis. Divide by 12 is about 14,400 nis a month. Unless you are bagging groceries, it's very possible for a two income household to make that much.

chanchy123

Tue, Nov 26 2019, 2:10 am

tilot37354 wrote:

I'm not advocating aliyah for financial reasons. Aliyah is valuable in itself and financial circumstances vary, I'm assuming that it's beneficial for some and not as lucrative for others.
But in Israel being frum does not come with about extra price tag, it's built in to everyone's daily lives.
There are rich people here, middle class people and poor people. $50,000 a year for a single person is not some crazy huge sum. Many many people earn more than that (I just looked up the average salary - it's a bit under $40k a year and according to the article a third of Israelis make more than that).
You shouldn't come to Israel to get rich - in fact most chances you won't get rich.
But if you're looking for "the natural habitat" for Jews (if I may borrow Rappel's imagery) - that's here.
Here, you can have a good life where being shomer Torah and Mitzvot does not incur any extra expense, you're just being Jewish like everyone else.

chanchy123

Tue, Nov 26 2019, 2:29 am

amother [ Royalblue ] wrote:

Just looked it up.
The average income per household in Israel (pre-tax) is a bit over 20k nis monthly - which equals to close to $70k per year. Any household bringing in less than 14k nis a month is far below average.
It's certainly possible to be financially comfortable here.
I find that many American Jews have a skewed view of israeli socio economic reality.
Yeshivish people know mostly chareidi Israelis, who are on the very low edge of israeli socio-economic scale. They are by far the poorest sector in Israel and are not refective of Israeli society in any way.
Many MO American Jews are among the highest earning groups in America, even if they are not high earning themselves their communities are. In Israel DL people are divided normally (can you say that in English? I mean statistically) - so we reflect an average income family - not the high income communities, so someone from an average MO comunity would ecpect an average DL community to reflect similar earning power.
Yes, in general, opportunities for being fabulously wealthy are greater in the US, but for us plain middleclass people It's not half bad in Israel.

Mayflower

Tue, Nov 26 2019, 2:55 am

Rappel wrote:

I can't help but agree.

If you're nurturing neshamot in a greenhouse of kedusha, then the irrigation systems and lighting and compost are going to cost way more than if you planted them in their natural habitat.

Wow, beautifully put!!

That said, I think America is the exception - not Israel.

I live in Europe, and the cost of (frum) living is a fraction of the cost in the US. Mainly because of the exorbitant costs of health care (not a frum thing) and tuition (very much a frum thing).

Another thing that isn't very "frum friendly" in the US, IMO, is the unhealthy work-life balance. The lack of (paid) maternity leave, forcing a kimpeturin to return to work just weeks after the baby is born; the necessity for many women to work full time to pay for the expensive life style, forcing them to work Friday till just before candle lighting, on chol hamo'ed, etc... It really makes frum day to day life very hard.

amother

Slategray

Tue, Nov 26 2019, 3:53 am

As someone who has been living in Israel almost 20 years now, every time a thread like this turns into, "Everyone should just move to Israel", I groan inwardly. I so don't want to get involved or start controversy, but I don't think it's fair to paint such a carefree rosy picture either. It does a complete disservice to make things out to be so wonderful when, in actuality, you better want it very badly because it aint easy at all.

My younger girls' elementary (not high school) tuition is very cheap. That's it. High school is expensive and my boys' elementary schools and high schools are even more.

Salaries here are far lower, while many of the cost of living categories cost the same amount or more than in America. Sure it depends on where you live, and many women on Imamother do live away from the cities where everything is cheaper. If that's what you're considering, wonderful. But all these posts that say, 'Life in America is so expensive!" It's silly to say, "No, it's not. I live in Wichita and my mortgage is so affordable!".

It is a well known rule in Israel to never look at average salary, since the average is so skewed by population in high tech. You must look at the median salary.

Yes, we have subsidised medicine, which has it's pros and cons. It's so great to be able to take a strep test or a blood test without paying out of pocket. It's hard to have to wait months and months for an important test, and none of my 3 sons' medications are included. That adds up to a lot every month. So again, realize that it's not all perfect.

(These are just some of my personal experiences. Everyone here will have different experiences and different opinions. These are mine, I'm entitled to them, and there's no need for every Israeli on this board to post in disagreement. These are my experiences over the past 20 years, no need to argue or disagree. If your experience has been vastly different, that's great for you. I'm just trying to present all sides.)

If you're on Facebook, you can peruse such groups as, "Living Financially Smarter in Israel" to understand real-life struggles that exist here. Again, I'm not saying one shouldn't make Aliya. I did and I wouldn't have it any other way. There is nowhere else I would want to raise my kids. But if you're coming because you heard it would improve your financial situation, you may be disappointed.