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Forum
-> Fashion and Beauty
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amother
OP
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 Wed, Dec 11 2019, 5:14 pm
Think about it - all our great foremothers and leaders were all considered "yifas toar". (Okay. Except Leah, and she was "hated") Why? Were any of our forefathers mentioned to be handsome? No. That wasn't what their worth was all about. Their looks are only mentioned in context of some great downfall, like Yosef and Avshalom.
Why the Torah emphasis on beauty? Is that our only worth?
-- And yes, I'm depressed because I'm not beautiful. And now I'm aging on top of that, and I'm not sure why it all even matters. And it would help if the guidebook to which I lead my life wouldn't mention it as if it's the only thing that matters. (Sara was beautiful at 100 like at 20, etc etc)
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Ruchel
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Wed, Dec 11 2019, 5:16 pm
Yosef has some objectifying comments LOL.
Beauty is a symbol - also bear in mind beauty was wholly different then
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amother
Cyan
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Wed, Dec 11 2019, 5:23 pm
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Actually, it illustrates the downside of beauty. Being beautiful means your husband has to tell everyone that you're his sister.
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amother
OP
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Wed, Dec 11 2019, 5:23 pm
| amother [ Cyan ] wrote: | | Actually, it illustrates the downside of beauty. Being beautiful means your husband has to tell everyone that you're his sister. |
This made me laugh.
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simcha2
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Wed, Dec 11 2019, 6:06 pm
שקר החן והבל היופי
(And I'm sure you're beautiful. It took me a long time to realize I'm made b'tzelem Elokim and therefore absolutely beautiful)
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L K
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Wed, Dec 11 2019, 6:28 pm
Check out Goar Avetisyan on Instagram and YouTube.
I don’t think there’s a point to argue with you if you feel you aren’t beautiful.
However, I think that if you see what that makeup artist does to her models, many of whom don’t look like conventional beauties you may reconsider the way you perceive your looks. Possibly what you could benefit from is a makeover to bring out your nice features and/or correct less perfect ones.
I’d venture to say that any normal woman would feel better when she herself begins to see her own beauty.
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zaq
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Wed, Dec 11 2019, 6:30 pm
Nowhere does the text mention Hannah’s looks, or Deborah’s, or Tamar’s (Yehuda’s dil), or Miriam’s, or Yocheved’s, or Shifra and Puah’s, or Abigail’s, or many other great but less well-known women, because evidently their looks are of no significance to the story. Sarah’s , clearly, because were she not beautiful, that whole parasha with Abimelech and again with Paraoh wouldn’t have happened. I’m not sure why Rivka’s looks were important other than the Medrash about having to get away from
home because of the unnatural lusts of her menfolks, but I have to assume that her looks were germane to the story. Rachel’s looks are significant because they affected her relationship with her sister, and were probably the root of the rivalry even before Jacob appeared on the scene.
Maybe the men’s looks aren’t mentioned because their looks weren’t relevant to the story—Joseph being the exception that proves the rule— or maybe they weren’t particularly good-looking men. Can’t be a coincidence that Joseph, the only son whose looks are mentioned at all, was the son of the beautiful wife.
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iammom
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Wed, Dec 11 2019, 6:31 pm
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When the Torah describes a person, it’s not necessarily talking about their external looks
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goodmorning
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Wed, Dec 11 2019, 6:45 pm
| zaq wrote: | Nowhere does the text mention Hannah’s looks, or Deborah’s, or Tamar’s (Yehuda’s dil), or Miriam’s, or Yocheved’s, or Shifra and Puah’s, or Abigail’s, or many other great but less well-known women, because evidently their looks are of no significance to the story. Sarah’s , clearly, because were she not beautiful, that whole parasha with Abimelech and again with Paraoh wouldn’t have happened. I’m not sure why Rivka’s looks were important other than the Medrash about having to get away from
home because of the unnatural lusts of her menfolks, but I have to assume that her looks were germane to the story. Rachel’s looks are significant because they affected her relationship with her sister, and were probably the root of the rivalry even before Jacob appeared on the scene.
Maybe the men’s looks aren’t mentioned because their looks weren’t relevant to the story—Joseph being the exception that proves the rule— or maybe they weren’t particularly good-looking men. Can’t be a coincidence that Joseph, the only son whose looks are mentioned at all, was the son of the beautiful wife. |
Shmuel I 25:3
וְשֵׁ֤ם הָאִישׁ֙ נָבָ֔ל וְשֵׁ֥ם אִשְׁתּ֖וֹ אֲבִגָ֑יִל וְהָאִשָּׁ֤ה טֽוֹבַת־שֶׂ֙כֶל֙ וִ֣יפַת תֹּ֔אַר
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suremom
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Wed, Dec 11 2019, 6:49 pm
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Was king David not valued?
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livinginflatbus
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Wed, Dec 11 2019, 6:57 pm
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I think their beauty is also referring to their midos Tovos.
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southernbubby
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Wed, Dec 11 2019, 7:00 pm
It could be that we are meant to value our appearance and try to do something to enhance it such as wearing jewelry.
So OP, put on some jewelry and by that definition, you are considered beautiful.
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malki2
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Wed, Dec 11 2019, 7:18 pm
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What you said is not exactly true. Rabbi Akiva Tatz said in a lecture (quoting from others) that only prior to the time of the Bais Hamikdosh era was outer beauty a reflection of inner beauty. Today, it’s actually the opposite, if at all. He quoted a Gemara where a woman was astounded at how ugly a certain Amora was. He replied that he is so great spiritually only because he is so ugly.
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amother
Amethyst
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Wed, Dec 11 2019, 7:21 pm
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | Think about it - all our great foremothers and leaders were all considered "yifas toar". (Okay. Except Leah, and she was "hated") Why? Were any of our forefathers mentioned to be handsome? No. That wasn't what their worth was all about. Their looks are only mentioned in context of some great downfall, like Yosef and Avshalom.
Why the Torah emphasis on beauty? Is that our only worth?
-- And yes, I'm depressed because I'm not beautiful. And now I'm aging on top of that, and I'm not sure why it all even matters. And it would help if the guidebook to which I lead my life wouldn't mention it as if it's the only thing that matters. (Sara was beautiful at 100 like at 20, etc etc) |
“Vedovid yefe einayim hu roeh bashoshanim”
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livinginflatbus
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Wed, Dec 11 2019, 7:31 pm
| livinginflatbus wrote: | | I think their beauty is also referring to their midos Tovos. |
Why was I hugged ?
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amother
Powderblue
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Wed, Dec 11 2019, 7:44 pm
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | | Think about it - all our great for([b]Sara was beautiful at 100 like at 20, etc etc[/b]) |
This refers to her pure nishama like a child w/o any sins.
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amother
Seagreen
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Wed, Dec 11 2019, 8:25 pm
| livinginflatbus wrote: | | Why was I hugged ? |
Not sure, because certainly Tanach is meant to be understood on a spiritual, often homoletic level. Th
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amother
Lime
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Wed, Dec 11 2019, 8:28 pm
| livinginflatbus wrote: | | Why was I hugged ? | 8
Because you gave a pretzel answer.
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malki2
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Wed, Dec 11 2019, 8:31 pm
| iammom wrote: | | When the Torah describes a person, it’s not necessarily talking about their external looks |
When the Torah gave physical descriptions it meant them literally. Their beauty was a reflection of their inner purity, but they were definitely physically beautiful as well.
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